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[TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
05-16-18, 07:43 PM (This post was last modified: 05-17-18 09:47 AM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #1
[TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
I just had an Axiom 9 installed. My wind instrument is an older ST60 Wind. The Axiom seems to accurately report True and Apparent wind on the dashboard except that the wind seems to be 180 degrees off. Wind on the nose on the ST60 shows as on the stern on the Axiom (bottom of the sailing dial). Any ideas?

Thanks, Russ
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05-16-18, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 05-17-18 09:48 AM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #2
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hello Russ,

Have you had a look at the relevant numerical wind values in the Axiom's Dashboard?

If these don't agree with the graphical display on the Axiom, we have an Axiom software bug which we'd need to address (a clear photo of the two side-by-side, along with the MFD's software version from the Setup page would help us report this to Engineering).

If, on the other hand (and as I think is much more likely), the Axiom's numerical value agrees with its graphical display and both disagree with the ST60 Wind (comparing True with True or Apparent with Apparent), then the problem will almost certainly be the ST60 Wind's low-level pointer motor calibration (not the standard wind-angle alignment.) This was quite common on ST60 analogue instruments, and this leads to a difference between where the pointer is pointing on the ST60 and the digital wind angle its outputting over Seatalk.
In this instance you would need to recalibrate the ST60's pointer motor, which is done via a hidden self-test process. See Self Test stage 3 of the attached document for instructions. I am confident that after this, the Axiom and ST60 will agree.

If in doubt, post photos or notes of the specific values for each of the following at one point in time, so that we can have a look:
ST60 Apparent Wind Angle (AWA)
ST60 AW Speed (AWS)
ST60 True WA (TWA)
ST60 TWS
Axiom AWA
Axiom AWS
Axiom TWA
Axiom TWS

Regards,
Tom


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.pdf  ST60_Wind_selftest.pdf (Size: 38 KB / Downloads: 87)

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05-17-18, 07:47 AM (This post was last modified: 05-17-18 09:48 AM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #3
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Thanks Tom. I will check the numerical vs. the graphic display today. Just to be clear, the ST60 is reporting the correct wind direction and the Axiom (graphic) is ~180 off.
Back to you soon.
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05-17-18, 12:01 PM
Post: #4
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Tom,

Here is a photo of what I get. Not much wind but you still can see the difference. The ST60 wind direction is correct. The Axiom is the one that is off.

Thank, Russ


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05-17-18, 09:57 PM
Post: #5
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Russ,

Thanks, that photo was exactly what I needed to see.

I know that the ST60 *appears* to be correct: the problem is that the place where the pointer is indicating is not (almost certainly) what is being output onto Seatalk, as I described before. I have seen just this sort of problem many times over the years.

I know you're sceptical about my diagnosis at the moment, but I would suggest running through the self-test pointer alignment just to be sure. If you make pointer alignment changes here you'll need to do the standard calibration wind-angle alignment afterwards.

Alternatively, if there's anything else in the system that's capable of displaying wind data (autopilot display data-page, for example?) then you can use that as a cross-check: does this other display agree with the ST60 Wind or the Axiom?

Regards,
Tom

Raymarine since 1999.
Interests: Diagnosis of problems in sonar/fishfinders, NMEA2000, ethernet comms, autopilots
Location: Sydney, Australia
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05-18-18, 08:31 AM
Post: #6
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Tom,

I want to make sure I understand. I am 100% certain that the boat was pointing into the wind and the ST60 indicator was accurately showing the wind direction. Wind clearly in my face, wind instrument and windex both showing wind from the bow, boats on either side wind instruments showing the same. I can take pics of the windex and ST60/Axiom at the same time if needed.

Not fully understanding the wiring as a reputable local marine electronics shop did the work (they saw it too and said they would look into it but I'm digging also), is the input signal to the ST60 and Axiom happen off the same direct line, or does the wind instrument input to the ST60 and then the ST60 outputs to the Axiom. If the latter could the ST60 be reading the correct input but altering the output?

Let me know if you want pics of the wind indicators and ST60/Axiom as aligning on that is obviously and important part of the discussion.

Thanks, Russ
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05-18-18, 01:27 PM
Post: #7
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Tom,

Also, here are new pics showing the instrument and the windex. The ST60 and the windex show the same. The wind instrument as well, I just didn't snap that.

Thanks,
Russ


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05-20-18, 08:28 PM
Post: #8
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Russ,

Quote:If the latter could the ST60 be reading the correct input but altering the output?
Exactly: I'm saying that the pointer is pointing somewhere other than where the ST60 thinks it is, and what it's outputting onto Seatalk is where it thinks the pointer is, not where it actually is.

I see in these latest photos that you do have a pilot display right next door that can display wind data: what does the p70 show for AWA? (Menu > Pilot View > Multiple, Menu > Pilot View > Data boxes > set one to show AWA.)
Does it agree with the ST60 or with the Axiom?

Tom

Raymarine since 1999.
Interests: Diagnosis of problems in sonar/fishfinders, NMEA2000, ethernet comms, autopilots
Location: Sydney, Australia
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05-27-18, 07:25 AM
Post: #9
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Tom,

I went thru linearization/calibrate process. No change. My electronics guy told me something that may explain the situation but sounded off to me. In the picture I attached previously, on the Axiom you can see the wind tic mark at the bottom of the sailing dial. On the Axiom product would that indicate a tail wind or a head wind? My electronics guys told me Raymarine says that indicates a headwind (noting the shape of the tic mark). Is that true?

Thanks,
Russ
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05-27-18, 08:38 PM
Post: #10
RE: [TG11] Wind 180 degrees off on Axiom 9
Hi Russ,

Was it the linearisation/calibration process from the installation manual that you went through, or from the document I sent?

Regarding the way Axiom shows wind data: as is standard, our displays show the direction the wind is coming from. In the photo you have attached previously the Axiom is receiving and displaying Apparent Wind Angles of 170deg or 167deg Port, which agrees with the graphic on the Axiom and indicates that the wind is coming from astern. Of course I know that this is not the case (I see your Windex photo), but as I say, I am pretty confident that this is what the ST60 is outputting onto the network, regardless of where its needle is...

Please: what does the p70 show for AWA, does this agree with the ST60 or the Axiom?

Regards,
Tom

Raymarine since 1999.
Interests: Diagnosis of problems in sonar/fishfinders, NMEA2000, ethernet comms, autopilots
Location: Sydney, Australia
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