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[CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
01-04-19, 02:46 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-19 03:40 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #1
[CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
I purchased a 2006 Four Winns (Vista 348 Vista, 2x Volvo 5.7 inboards) new 12 years ago. It came with a C80, 18" 2K radar, Airmar retractable Depth and Temp sensor (NMEA 0183 connected I believe), Raymarine Auto pilot (the boat has hydraulic steering), and a Raymarine VHF radio which has since been replaced with a Raymarine 60 (2 years ago).


I am looking to upgrade. Initial thought was to use two (2) Axion 9 units, Quantum 2 radar and AIS700. I believe that I would need to added a HS5 switch to connect the two displays and the radar. I would add an Actisense NMEA 0183 > NMEA 2000 converter for the feed to the Autopilot and replace the current Airmar unit with an Airmar NMEA 2000 unit (20 degree deadrise, no new holes in the boat, just replace the retractable unit).

I would also add a RCR-SDUSB card reader and a RMK-10 key pad for convenience. A RA150 GPS sensor would be added to ensure GPS signal since the MFD are going to be installed inside the helm. The existing RAY60 could be connected to the Seatalkng backbone. Various Seatalkng components would also be added.


Looking at the Axiom Pro 9, it appears to have TWO ethernet (Raynet) ports, a GPS antenna port and a NMEA 0183 interface. Though more expensive, it would eliminate the HS5, card reader, key pad and Actisense converter, and the RA150 could be replaced with a GA150 making the increase in cost minimal . Also, the Axiom 9 has better screen resolution.

So my proposed configuration:

One Axiom Pro 9 (the "master" unit), one Axiom 9, one Quantum 2 radar. The Axiom 9 and Quantum 2 would connect directly to the Axiom Pro 9 using Raynet cables. AIS700.
The existing Airmar would connect to the input side of the Axiom Pro 9 NMEA 0183 interface. The output of the Axiom Pro NMEA 0183 interface would connect to the exissting Autopilot. the GA150 would connect to the Axiom Pro 9 interface.


Will this work and does it make sense?


Also, will I need to add an EV-1 to get the fulll benefit from the Quantum 2 radar OR is there a way to get the HDG/HDT info from the existing Autopilot?
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01-07-19, 04:12 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-19 09:03 AM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #2
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
Q1. My proposed configuration: One Axiom Pro 9 (the "master" unit), one Axiom 9, one Quantum 2 radar. The Axiom 9 and Quantum 2 would connect directly to the Axiom Pro 9 using Raynet cables. AIS700. The existing Airmar would connect to the input side of the Axiom Pro 9 NMEA 0183 interface. The output of the Axiom Pro NMEA 0183 interface would connect to the exissting Autopilot. the GA150 would connect to the Axiom Pro 9 interface. Will this work and does it make sense?

A1. This proposed configuration will indeed work and does make sense. I tend to prefer the Raystar 150 GPS Sensor over the GA150, as the Data Master MFD need not be powered on in order for the VHF to receive GPS data. The Data Master MFD, GA150, and Ray60 would each be interfaced as spurs to a powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone.

Q2. Also, will I need to add an EV-1 to get the full benefit from the Quantum 2 radar? Is there a way to get the HDG/HDT info from the existing Autopilot?
A2. Radar features will be maximized when heading data or better yet 10Hz stabilized heading data is supplied to the system. The Axiom Pro MFD features two NMEA 0183 input ports, on of which could possibly be used to receive heading data from the autopilot course computer. Depending upon the model of autopilot course computer which is currently installed onboard, heading may be provided system via NMEA 0183 or via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter, which in turn would be installed as a component of the aforementioned SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone. What model of autopilot course computer is presently installed onboard the vessel?
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01-07-19, 07:13 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-19 09:08 AM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #3
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
Thank you for the response.

With respect to the Autopilot, I do not know. It was new with the boat in 2006. I have attached two photos, which might help identify the models. As you can see, access to the unit is a bit tight.

Also, the boat is on the hard and shrink wrapped. I can get to these two pieces, but not the pump is in the engine compartment.

I might consider replacing the AutoPilot. Would a EV-1/ACU-150/p70Rs combination be the proper replacement? As I mentioned, I do not have access to the pump or hydraulic steering cylinder.

Thank you very much for your assistance.
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01-08-19, 09:17 AM
Post: #4
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
morowsky,

The pictured autopilot appears to be a S1G, which on a vessel featuring hydraulic steering, would have been interfaced to a Type 1 Hydraulic Pump. Should the vessel feature a 12VDC power distribution system and should the pump indeed be a Type 1 Hydraulic Pump which has been properly selected based on the cubic capacity of the steering ram, then the EV-1/ACU-150/p70RS combination would indeed be the correct set of Evolution autopilot components to be purchased. These component are bundled as a package (T70407 EV-150 Power Pilot Core Pack) which included SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 networking components required to interface them to one another and to they system's SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone.
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01-08-19, 12:31 PM
Post: #5
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
Thank you for Identifying the S1G.

There is currently a SeaTalk cable going into C80 but I do not know where it comes from. I guess I need to trace the all Autopilot wiring. Since the current Autopilot is working fine, I will save some $$ by not replacing it, but interfacing it to the new Axiom configuration, if possible.

I will get back to you once I have more details.
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01-08-19, 02:16 PM
Post: #6
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
morowsky,

It is indeed possible to interface a S1G autopilot course computer and ST600x autopilot control head to an Axiom / Axiom Pro system via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter which would be included within the aforementioned backbone. Doing so will support supplying the new system with 1Hz heading data. Alternatively, the Axiom Pro MFD may be interfaced via NMEA 0183 communications to the S1G. However, care should be taken with respect to trying to get 5Hz heading data back to the system via NMEA 0183 S1G autopilot course computers would transmit NMEA 0183 navigational sentences (i.e. BWC) in addition to HDM, HDG, and RSA sentences. If these NMEA 0183 sentences are not filtered out of the transmission back to the MFD, then a data loop will result. A programmable NMEA 0183 multiplexer (ex. Actisense NDC-4-USB) would be utilized to support such filtering.

All of this said, the Evolution autopilot is vastly superior to that of all autopilots which preceded it, particularly with respect to the heading output from the system and it's ability to sense and respond to motion other than yaw. As a previous owner of SmartPilots (S1G & S2G), replacing my SmartPilot with an Evolution autopilot not only brought improved autopilot performance to my boat, but also significantly improved performance of heading dependent features (ex. radar overlay, chart / vessel icon orientation, ground wind calculations, etc.). Should one's budget permit upgrading to an Evolution autopilot, the I would highly recommend that one consider doing so.
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01-12-19, 04:43 PM
Post: #7
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
I have attached a current wiring diagram and diagrams for the configuration that I believe will work (4 diagrams).

There are no NMEA 0183 connections to the existing S1 or anything on its SeaTalk backbone, so I do not believe that a loop will be an issue. I have decided to stay with the current AutoPilot. I do have a couple of questions:

1. Is this a workable design?
2. If I want to get better heading information for AIS and Radar, etc., could I add an EV-1 Sensor core (Conneccted to the SeaTalkng), and remove the Fluxgate Compass from the S1? Will the appropriate heading data needed by the S1 pass through the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Conversion?
3. The Axiom Pro 9 is a RVX model. Will I be ableto view RealVision 3D on the other MFD, a Axiom 9 without SONAR?

4. Will or could there be issues with all the data (Heading, GPS, depth, AIS, etc.) on the SeaTalkng network getting onto the SeaTalk network?

Thank you again for all your assistance.

Steve
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01-14-19, 10:19 AM
Post: #8
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
morowsky,

Q1. There are no NMEA 0183 connections to the existing S1 or anything on its SeaTalk backbone, so I do not believe that a loop will be an issue.
A1. While possible, it would be quite atypical that a system featuring an autopilot and a chartplotting product would not have been installed in a manner whereby these products were interfaced to one another. The S1 only supported two types of communications ... NMEA 0183 and SeaTalk. Typically, the S1 would have been interfaced to the C-Series Classic MFD via SeaTalk bus as is shown within your Original Wiring diagram.

Q2. Is this a workable design?
A2. I would recommend one change with respect to how the autopilot has been interfaced the new equipment. The S1 has a pair of SeaTalk ports. It is recommended that one of these ports be used to interface the S1 to the ST6001 alone. The second port of the S1 should then be interfaced to the SeaTalk (yellow) socket of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter. The red lead of the SeaTalk cable connecting the S1 to the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter should not be connected to the red SeaTalk terminal of the S1. This method is recommended to 1) avoid creating a ground loop and 2) to provide a level degraded system capability onboard in the event of a failure within the SeaTalkng backbone whereby the autopilot may be operated with all other power circuits / devices switched OFF.

Q3. If I want to get better heading information for AIS and Radar, etc., could I add an EV-1 Sensor core (Conneccted to the SeaTalkng), and remove the Fluxgate Compass from the S1?
Q3a. Negative. The design of the S1/S1G/S2/S2G/S3/S3G are dependent upon having the autopilot course computer interfaced to the M81190 fluxgate compass or the a NMEA 0183 source of 10Hz stabilized heading data. While it would not do anything to improve the performance of the autopilot, you may want to consider including an AR200 Augmented Reality Sensor / GPS in place of the GA150 shown within your diagram. While it wouldn't improve autopilot performance, the stabilized attitude and heading data would support heading dependent calculations by the MFDs as well as providing a GPS data source to the system which would be independent of the power state of the MFDs. For the benefit of others viewing this FAQ whose systems feature i70/i70S Multifunction Instrument Display (MFID), ST70 MFID, p70/p70S/p70R/p70RS Autopilot Control Head, or ST70 Autopilot Control Head, please click here to view a FAQ addressing which device Data Sources should be configured via.

Q3b. Will the appropriate heading data needed by the S1 pass through the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Conversion?
A3b. Negative. See the response to Q3a.

Q4. The Axiom Pro 9 is a RVX model. Will I be able to view RealVision 3D on the other MFD, a Axiom 9 without SONAR?
A4. As long as the Axiom Pro RVX MFD is powered ON and has been interfaced to a ReaVision 3D transducer, then it will indeed be possible to view RealVision 3D sonar imaging on the Axiom MFD.

Q5. Will or could there be issues with all the data (Heading, GPS, depth, AIS, etc.) on the SeaTalkng network getting onto the SeaTalk network?
A5. See the FAQ referenced above addressing the Data Sources feature. This feature is used to configure which data sources will be used by the system.
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01-14-19, 09:38 PM
Post: #9
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
Great information. I could not find any technical and installation information on the AR200. Can you point me in the correct direction?
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01-15-19, 10:15 AM
Post: #10
RE: [CA11] Upgrades to my 2006 Four Winns
morowsky,

The AR200's Installation Guide may be found here.
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