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[TG11] Axiom - Crash to boot screen - Vesper AIS NMEA2000 data
05-13-19, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 05-21-19 12:12 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #1
[TG11] Axiom - Crash to boot screen - Vesper AIS NMEA2000 data
I have looked but cannot find a similar issue on the forum.
Axiom 9 and 7, (9 is Master) wind, and speed instruments via ITC5 and NEMA 2000, depth direct to Axiom 9 (installed in November 2018 by dealer). Raymarine ST6000 autopilot on NEMA2000 Vesper Marine XB8000 AIS sending data on NEMA2000. All systems working fine.
After February update of the Axiom I woke at anchor one morning to find the Axiom 7 stuck in boot screen. Shortly after the same happened to the Axiom 9. So no chart plotter, depth, wind or speed available to navigate back to safety of a marina. I was anchored off a small island east of Phuket Thailand.
Once back in the safety of a marina. Started investigation.
Recycled power and both MFD still in boot screen. Recovered by factory reset. However after a few hours same happens. Numerous attempts made.
Dealer removed both MFD and found nothing wrong.
Re-wired all 12vdc supply to separate supplies through a dc/dc converter in case fault was due to noise. Still encountered same issue.
Powering up the system in a certain sequence allows the system to function normally. Cold Boot up (12vdc turned on) sequence AIS, Axiom 9 then Axiom 7. In any other sequence MFD fail to boot screen after a few minutes. Indicators of failure are depth going erratic from 4M to 390M+, GPS signal lost. Same issue with soft (turning off at MFD 12vdc supply still on).
I am now very good at factory reset and rebuilding the preferences of the Axiom.
April update installed and now both Axiom fail to boot screen regardless of power on sequence.
AIS removed and tested by dealer. No faults found. Dealer changed NEMA200 network supply cable but system still fails after a few hours.
Finally I (yes I and not the dealer) went into the AIS system and turned off the NEMA2000 outputs except the AIS data. NEMA2000 inputs into the AIS not inhibited as I use the data across the AIS WiFi system to other displays. Since then the system is stable with numerous restarts tested. It took nearly 6 weeks, considerable inconvenience and extra financial outlay to come to this resolution.
So one question is why The NEMA 2000 data from the AIS, which is repeating the AXiom data, cause both Axiom to fail to boot screen?
Second question is can I trust my Axiom MFD to work reliably when sailing remote locations or should I have just stuck to paper charts, wet finger and a plumb line?
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05-21-19, 01:49 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-19 12:13 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #2
RE: [TG11] Crash to boot screen
Hello Sailboat Anahi,

I think I know what's happening here. I was involved in the diagnosis of a system with a very similar-sounding problem in New Zealand.

In that case the problem was that the Vesper AIS was outputting invalid/corrupted (and badly so) NMEA2000 data. The distribitor in NZ logged some NMEA2000 traffic for us and sent it over and the Vesper's PGN 129029 GNSS Position Data message was - well, I think mangled is perhaps the best description. I'll copy and paste the reply I sent to the tech in NZ, rather than write it all out again:

Quote:I think I have found the cause of both the Axiom and CANKing/NMEA2000 crashes: there seems to be something very strange in the Vesper’s PGN 129029 GNSS Position Data. Here’s an extract of the raw data, where if you look carefully you’ll see the same sequence of bytes (c0 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 78) repeated in different positions in the frame sequence, separated by blocks of ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff fc ff ff ff ff. Look at the second and third message blocks below for a good example. I’ve highlighted the first instance of the sequence in the first message block. Remember that this is a multi-frame message separated over 7 CAN frames (lines.)

Needless to say, it makes complete garbage of the data content of the messages, and the CANKing plugin is crashing because it’s trying and failing to interpret -1 (0xFFFFFFFF) as a valid date. I assume that it’s something similar to this that’s causing the MFD to crash too:

(sample data not in bold below due to forum formatting limitations, but you can see the pattern ...78 c0 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3... repeating throughout the data: this should never happen!)
Code:
Di Time---| PGN----|Src|Sq|------Data---------|
Rx 12646001 0d f8 05 15 60 2f ff c0 e0 44 03 3f
Rx 12646001 0d f8 05 15 61 00 c3 78 c0 e0 44 03
Rx 12646002 0d f8 05 15 62 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0 44
Rx 12646002 0d f8 05 15 63 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12646003 0d f8 05 15 64 ff ff fc ff ff ff ff
Rx 12646004 0d f8 05 15 65 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12646004 0d f8 05 15 66 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff

Rx 12647051 0d f8 05 15 80 2f ff 78 c0 e0 44 03
Rx 12647051 0d f8 05 15 81 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0 44
Rx 12647052 0d f8 05 15 82 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12647052 0d f8 05 15 83 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12647053 0d f8 05 15 84 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 78
Rx 12647054 0d f8 05 15 85 c0 e0 44 03 3f 01 ff
Rx 12647054 0d f8 05 15 86 ff ff ff 00 ee 01 ff

Rx 12648053 0d f8 05 15 a0 2f ff c3 78 c0 e0 44
Rx 12648053 0d f8 05 15 a1 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12648054 0d f8 05 15 a2 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12648054 0d f8 05 15 a3 e0 44 03 ff ff ff ff
Rx 12648055 0d f8 05 15 a4 ff ff ff ff ff fc ff
Rx 12648055 0d f8 05 15 a5 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12648056 0d f8 05 15 a6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12649054 0d f8 05 15 c0 2f ff 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12649054 0d f8 05 15 c1 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12649055 0d f8 05 15 c2 e0 44 ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12649056 0d f8 05 15 c3 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12649056 0d f8 05 15 c4 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12649057 0d f8 05 15 c5 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12649057 0d f8 05 15 c6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12650057 0d f8 05 15 e0 2f ff 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12650058 0d f8 05 15 e1 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 78
Rx 12650058 0d f8 05 15 e2 c0 e0 ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12650059 0d f8 05 15 e3 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12650060 0d f8 05 15 e4 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12650060 0d f8 05 15 e5 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12650061 0d f8 05 15 e6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12651059 0d f8 05 15 00 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12651059 0d f8 05 15 01 ff ff ff fc ff ff ff
Rx 12651060 0d f8 05 15 02 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12651060 0d f8 05 15 03 ff ff ff ff ff fc ff
Rx 12651061 0d f8 05 15 04 ff ff ff ff ff ff 44
Rx 12651062 0d f8 05 15 05 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12651062 0d f8 05 15 06 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 ff

Rx 12652111 0d f8 05 15 20 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12652111 0d f8 05 15 21 ff ff ff fc ff ff ff
Rx 12652112 0d f8 05 15 22 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12652112 0d f8 05 15 23 ff ff ff ff ff fc ff
Rx 12652113 0d f8 05 15 24 ff ff ff ff ff ff e0
Rx 12652113 0d f8 05 15 25 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12652114 0d f8 05 15 26 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 ff

Rx 12653162 0d f8 05 15 40 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12653162 0d f8 05 15 41 ff ff ff fc ff ff ff
Rx 12653163 0d f8 05 15 42 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12653164 0d f8 05 15 43 ff ff ff ff ff fc ff
Rx 12653164 0d f8 05 15 44 ff ff ff ff ff ff c0
Rx 12653165 0d f8 05 15 45 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 78
Rx 12653165 0d f8 05 15 46 c0 e0 44 03 3f 00 ff

Rx 12654163 0d f8 05 15 60 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12654164 0d f8 05 15 61 ff ff ff fc ff ff ff
Rx 12654164 0d f8 05 15 62 ff ff ff ff ff 01 05
Rx 12654165 0d f8 05 15 63 00 00 00 00 fc 08 00
Rx 12654166 0d f8 05 15 64 00 00 00 f1 ff ff ff
Rx 12654166 0d f8 05 15 65 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12654167 0d f8 05 15 66 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12655215 0d f8 05 15 80 2f ff c3 78 c0 e0 44
Rx 12655215 0d f8 05 15 81 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12655216 0d f8 05 15 82 44 03 ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12655216 0d f8 05 15 83 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12655217 0d f8 05 15 84 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12655218 0d f8 05 15 85 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12655218 0d f8 05 15 86 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12656266 0d f8 05 15 a0 2f ff 00 c3 78 c0 e0
Rx 12656267 0d f8 05 15 a1 44 03 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12656267 0d f8 05 15 a2 e0 44 ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12656268 0d f8 05 15 a3 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12656268 0d f8 05 15 a4 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12656269 0d f8 05 15 a5 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12656270 0d f8 05 15 a6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12657272 0d f8 05 15 c0 2f ff 3f 00 c3 78 c0
Rx 12657273 0d f8 05 15 c1 e0 44 03 3f 00 c3 78
Rx 12657273 0d f8 05 15 c2 c0 ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12657274 0d f8 05 15 c3 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12657275 0d f8 05 15 c4 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12657275 0d f8 05 15 c5 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12657276 0d f8 05 15 c6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12658324 0d f8 05 15 e0 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12658324 0d f8 05 15 e1 ff ff fc ff ff ff ff
Rx 12658325 0d f8 05 15 e2 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12658326 0d f8 05 15 e3 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12658326 0d f8 05 15 e4 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12658327 0d f8 05 15 e5 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12658327 0d f8 05 15 e6 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12659376 0d f8 05 15 00 2f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12659376 0d f8 05 15 01 ff ff fc ff ff ff ff
Rx 12659377 0d f8 05 15 02 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12659377 0d f8 05 15 03 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12659378 0d f8 05 15 04 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12659378 0d f8 05 15 05 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12659379 0d f8 05 15 06 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12660382 0d f8 05 15 20 2f ff e0 44 03 3f 00
Rx 12660382 0d f8 05 15 21 c3 78 c0 e0 44 03 3f
Rx 12660383 0d f8 05 15 22 00 ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12660384 0d f8 05 15 23 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12660385 0d f8 05 15 24 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12660385 0d f8 05 15 25 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12660386 0d f8 05 15 26 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12661433 0d f8 05 15 40 2f ff c0 e0 44 03 3f
Rx 12661434 0d f8 05 15 41 00 c3 78 c0 e0 44 03
Rx 12661434 0d f8 05 15 42 3f ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12661435 0d f8 05 15 43 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12661435 0d f8 05 15 44 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12661436 0d f8 05 15 45 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12661437 0d f8 05 15 46 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

Rx 12662487 0d f8 05 15 60 2f ff 78 c0 e0 44 03
Rx 12662487 0d f8 05 15 61 3f 00 c3 78 c0 e0 44
Rx 12662488 0d f8 05 15 62 03 ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12662488 0d f8 05 15 63 ff ff ff ff fc ff ff
Rx 12662489 0d f8 05 15 64 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
Rx 12662490 0d f8 05 15 65 ff ff ff ff ff ff fc
Rx 12662490 0d f8 05 15 66 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff

If you want to be sure that your AIS is subject to the same problem then you'd need to record some of the NMEA2000 data using one of the methods other than your Axiom listed in the middle of this post and send that log-file to me for examination, but I am pretty confident. Unfortunately this is one of those cases where only looking at the raw data will identify the problem. Here in Australia we now strongly encourage all of our technical service dealers to have a PC-based 'raw data' NMEA2000 diagnostic tool, which is where the above data came from.

In summary, I think you should probably push the manufacturer of the AIS for a software update, but in the meantime I think that you can trust the Axiom to work reliably with all reasonable NMEA2000 data.

Regards,
Tom

Raymarine since 1999.
Interests: Diagnosis of problems in sonar/fishfinders, NMEA2000, ethernet comms, autopilots, thermal cameras
Location: Sydney, Australia
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05-21-19, 08:36 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-19 12:13 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #3
RE: [TG11] Axiom - Crash to boot screen - Vesper AIS NMEA2000 data
Tom
Many thanks for the response.
I believe you have confirmed my suspicions that the data across the NEMA is causing the issue. So just one address? I have over the last week had no issues with crashing when starting up in different sequences.
Just a shame that it has taken so long to find a resolution even with the assistance of the local Raymarine agent. Especially when I requested at the beginning the network be checked for just such an issue. It might have saved me a lot of money as well.
I can live with the Vesper AIS outputs inhibited so with your confirmation I will say this case is closed and hope for some happy sailing memories with my Axiom system. I have been very happy with them apart from this issue but would like a way of trending points such as wind speed and STW if that is possible.
Best regards
Gavin
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05-27-19, 10:22 PM
Post: #4
RE: [TG11] Axiom - Crash to boot screen - Vesper AIS NMEA2000 data
Hello Gavin,

Yes, we're trying (here in Australia) to educate dealers about NMEA2000 diagnosis, tools, understanding the raw data and things to look for, but it's a bit of a struggle. As you can see from the extract I posted, it's not as simple as old NMEA0183 was and for many dealers it seems overly daunting. We have field tools that can help them, but it's a task to persuade them to use them and understand the results.

Understood about the trend feature, I believe that's something that's been reported as a feature request but I will make sure that that's the case. I definitely see the benefit.

Regards,
Tom

Raymarine since 1999.
Interests: Diagnosis of problems in sonar/fishfinders, NMEA2000, ethernet comms, autopilots, thermal cameras
Location: Sydney, Australia
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