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+--- Thread: [CA] [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG (/showthread.php?tid=10087)
[CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - sailingharry - 12-09-19 05:44 PM
Greetings,
My new-to me boat is a Saga 43, a 20,000 pound boat. My old boat is a Sabre 34, an old and much lighter boat, around 12,000 pounds. I'm also looking to sell the Sabre.
The Sabre has an S3 autopilot computer, driving a wheel pilot.
The Saga has a Series 100 computer, driving a Type II Long actuator.
Both have a ST6000 series controller (not sure which specific ones).
When I was at the Annapolis boat show, I spoke to the rep, and he was amazed that the Series 100 was still running on a boat this heavy.
So my question. I believe the Series 100 is original to the Saga (1998), and the S3 is much newer. Is the S3 sufficiently better than the Series 100 that I should swap the units? The Sabre selling price won't notice the difference, and we will be keeping the Saga for many years and many miles.
Thanks for any thoughts,
Harry
RE: [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 12-10-19 10:41 AM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Harry,
As was suggested by the Raymarine staff, the maximum size mechanical linear drive which would have been specified for use with a Type 100 autopilot course computer would have been a Type 1 Mechanical Linear Drive. Additionally, the Type 1 Mechanical Linear Drive would have been at the upper limit of it capacity when factoring the loaded weight of the vessel (1.2 x 20,000 lbs = 24,000 lbs ... the upper limit of a Type 1 Mechanical Linear Drive). Use a mechanical drive unit and course computer which are that the limits of their application under repeated heavy conditions may result in premature failure of the drive unit and/or course computer. While satisfactory moderate sailing conditions, it would have been recommended that a Type 2 Mechanical Linear Drive and heavier autopilot course computer/ACU be considered for blue water / heavy weather applications.
Q1. Is the S3 sufficiently better than the Series 100 that I should swap the units?
A1. Yes. The S3 will also support use of a Type 2 Mechanical Linear Drive. Please additionally note that a Type 100 autopilot course computer may be used with a wheel drive. Accordingly, you may want to consider moving the S3 autopilot course computer and its control head to the new boat and move the Type 100 and its control head to the old boat.
RE: [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - sailingharry - 01-02-20 10:01 PM
Chuck,
I have started down the road toward a swap. But unfortunately, I really botched the original question. Let me try again.
The Sabre 34 has an S1 (not an S3), which is not suitable for a Type 2 linear drive, from what I can tell. The S3 of course is suitable for the drive. Strike 1.
The Saga has a Series 300, not a Series 100. I don't know the actual specs for the two units, but the service manual says the only difference is the Series 300 can drive a bigger actuator. Strike 2.
I think that with the correct models, the verdict reverses. I should keep the S1 on the 12,000 pound Sabre 34 with the wheel pilot, and the Series 300 on the 22,000 pound Saga 43 with the Type 2 Long linear drive (and not swap units).
Do you concur?
Another question -- the Saga has a rate gyro unit, an E12101, and I can't find the manual anywhere. Can you point me to where I can download it?
Thanks. And sorry for the bad data.
Harry
RE: [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 01-03-20 09:13 AM
Harry,
Q1. The Sabre 34 has an S1 (not an S3), which is not suitable for a Type 2 linear drive, from what I can tell. The S3 of course is suitable for the drive. Strike 1.
A1. Raymarine did not produce course computers having the names Series 100 and Series 300. However, Raymarine did produce autopilot course computers having the names Type 100 and Type 300. These were succeeded by the S1, S2, and S3 autopilot course computers and then the gyro assisted versions of these same autopilot course computers, the S1G, S2G, and S3G. The S1/S1G were capable of powering a Type 1 mechanical linear drive, while the S2/S2G or S3/S3G would have been capable of powering a Type 2 mechanical linear drive.
Q2. The Saga has a Series 300, not a Series 100. I don't know the actual specs for the two units, but the service manual says the only difference is the Series 300 can drive a bigger actuator. Strike 2.
A2. The Type 300 autopilot course computer was capable of powering a Type 2 mechanical linear drive, while the Type 100 autopilot course computer was limited to a Type 1 mechanical linear drive.
Q3. I think that with the correct models, the verdict reverses. I should keep the S1 on the 12,000 pound Sabre 34 with the wheel pilot, and the Series 300 on the 22,000 pound Saga 43 with the Type 2 Long linear drive (and not swap units). Do you concur?
A3. A Type 100 course computer or S1 autopilot course computer with a wheel drive constitutes a correct/valid combination for a 12,000 lb. sailboat. A Type 300 course computer or S3 autopilot course computer with a Type 2 mechanical linear constitutes a correct/valid combination for a 22,000 lb. sailboat.
Q4. The Saga has a rate gyro unit, an E12101, and I can't find the manual anywhere. Can you point me to where I can download it?
A4. You may be referring to the Gyro Plus, also known as the Pathfinder Smart Heading Sensor. The manual for it may be found here.
RE: [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - sailingharry - 01-03-20 09:40 AM
Thanks for the response. I'll put back everything where it was. It would have been nice! And next time, I'll do a better job of reading model names...
I had found that link for the Gyro Plus, but it really doesn't seem to be the unit that I have. I've attached a photo of the unit (at least, I think I have). I'm trying to understand what it is, what it does, what capability it adds, and what all the wires mean.
Thanks again, and Happy New Year.
Harry
RE: [CA11] 100 series autopilot vs SG - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 01-03-20 12:00 PM
Harry,
Your photo is indeed that of a GyroPlus / Pathfinder Smart Heading System which has had its cover removed. In the case of a system featuring an S1, S2, or S3 autopilot course computer, it could effectively turn the course computer into a S1G, S2G, or S3G respectively. The system is designed to provide stabilized 10 Hz heading data to the system and enable features such as Autolearn (a feature utilized during seatrial to learn the handling characteristics of the vessel) within these autopilots. More about this feature may be found the GyroPlus owner's manual and within the SmartPilots commissioning guide.