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New equipment and integration of existing - Printable Version

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New equipment and integration of existing - Lazybones - 08-01-16 01:50 PM

We have just completed a circumnavigation in our 54’ sailboat and our electronics need to be updated.

We currently have:
-1990 Autohelm 100/300 autopilot, course computer, wired remote, display and mechanical linear drive.
-2004 SG3 Smartpilot course computer, display, and Type 2 Hydraulic Drive
-1990 ST50 Wind (2x), Speed (2x), Depth, and Multi displays and their related transducers
-2004 Furuno GPS receivers (2x)
-2010 Camino AIS Class B Transponder
-2010 Standard Horizon Matrix AIS VHF Radio
-Seatalk to RS232/NMEA Converters (2x)
-RS232/NMEA Multiplexers (2x)

Looking to install:
-Large screen MFD (15”) probably e165 or your recommendation, using C-Map and/or Navionics Charts
-Quantum CHRP Radar for better close range targeting
-Thermal Imaging T200 or T300
-Sirius Sat Weather
-Improved Sonar for shallow waters

Questions:
1. We prefer a large screen. Is the functionality and performance of the e165 (15”) the same as the new eS series (12”)? Is there a larger eS series MFD coming soon? Whatv would you recommend?

2. Can we interface and use any or all of the existing ST 50 Transducers for wind, speed, depth? Perhaps using one of your bridge products?

3. Can we interface and use any or all of the existing ST 50 displays (we have 6)? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converters.

4. Can we interface and use the existing SG3 Smartpilot? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter?

5. Can we interface and use the existing Autohelm 100/300 autopilot? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter?

6. We are looking for the best accuracy for depth as we are often in very shallow water or entering reefs. Which sonar would you recommend?

7. Can we use our existing GPS data to feed the network or the MFD?

8. Can we use our existing AIS data from either the Transponder or the AIS Matrix radio to feed the network or the MFD? Using Actisense?

I have a system diagram that I have created, if that would help.

Thank you.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-08-16 01:08 PM

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Lazybones,

Q1. We prefer a large screen. Is the functionality and performance of the e165 (15”) the same as the new eS series (12”)? Is there a larger eS series MFD coming soon? What would you recommend?
Q1. At this time, the largest eS-Series MFD offered by Raymarine is 12" as you have indicated. As Raymarine policy prohibits its employees from discussing its plans for future products, the e165 MFD will have to be considered. From the standpoint of software related features, the e-Series MFDs are identical to the eS-Series MFDs. The eS-Series MFDs simply represent the latest hardware evolution of the e/E-Series MFD product line. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject.

Q2. Can we interface and use any or all of the existing ST 50 Transducers for wind, speed, depth? Perhaps using one of your bridge products?
A2. While ST50+ instrument data may be bridged to SeaTalkng (via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter) for use by the e165 MFD, such data bridging is not supported for ST50 instruments. hile ST50+ instrument data may be bridged to SeaTalkng (via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter) for use by the e165 MFD, such data bridging is not supported for ST50 instruments. It is conceivable that by converting the data to NMEA 0183 (v2.1 assumed ... earlier versions not supported), the NMEA 0183 output may be of the bridging device may be interfaced to the MFD's NMEA 0183 input port to supply the MFD with wind, depth, speed, and temperature data.

Analog instrument transducers cannot be directly interfaced to an a/c/e/eS/gS-Series MFD. Such transducers may be interfaced to i40, i50, i60 instruments or to an iTC-5 Analog Instrument Transducer Convert w/i70 Multifunction Instrument Display which in turn may be interfaced to an a/c/e/eS/gS-Series MFD. While the depth, speed, temperature instrument transducers used with the ST50 instruments may be used with the i40, i50, and iTC-5 products, wind transducers designed for use with ST50/ST50+ Wind Instruments may not be used with i60 Wind Instruments or iTC-5.

Q3. Can we interface and use any or all of the existing ST 50 displays (we have 6)? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converters.
A3. See the response to Q1, as it appears that you may have a path to bridge data via NMEA 0183

Q4. Can we interface and use the existing SG3 Smartpilot? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter?
A4. Autopilots are not designed be full SeaTalk to NMEA 0183 data bridging devices as are MFDs and purposely designed data bridges (ex. E85001 PC/SeaTalk/NMEA 0183 Interface Module.

Q5. Can we interface and use the existing Autohelm 100/300 autopilot? Using Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter?
A5. While it may be possible to interface a Type 100/300 autopilot course computer to an a/c/e/eS/gS-Series MFD via NMEA 0183 communications protocol, doing so via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter is not supported.

Q6. We are looking for the best accuracy for depth as we are often in very shallow water or entering reefs. Which sonar would you recommend?
A6. Typically, depth instruments rather than fishfinders are recommended for such purposes. Raymarine instruments and fishfinding products are not designed to support sounding forward of the vessel ... they are designed to sound under (via instrument or fishfinder sounders) and to the sides (via CP200 ... not for sailing vessels) of the vessel.

Q7. Can we use our existing GPS data to feed the network or the MFD?
A7. Should the GPS sensors support NMEA 0183 v2.1 or higher and be switched such that only one is supplying the system with GPS data at any time, then they may be used with the new system. If seeking to put GPS data on the SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone, then an Actisense NGW-1-STng would typically be recommended. The Actisense NGW-1-STng data bridge may be combined with an Actisense NDC-4 to bridge 4800 BAUD NMEA 0183 data from multiple devices to the SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone.

Q8. Can we use our existing AIS data from either the Transponder or the AIS Matrix radio to feed the network or the MFD? Using Actisense?
A8. Either one of these AIS receiving devices may be interfaced to the system. If seeking to put data on the SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone, then an Actisense NGW-1-AIS would typically be recommended.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Lazybones - 08-12-16 10:51 AM

Thank you Chuck:

We are looking to connect our working Seatalk system (SG3, ST6001, ST50+ instruments) to the MFD via a Seatalk to Seatlak NG converter.

Is it correct to assume that the Seatalk side of the cable end of the Seatalk to Seatalk NG Cable is the standard "Screen Yellow Red" 3 wire cable?

We understand that power should not be supplied from both sides, Seatalk and Seatalk NG.

We are planning to provide power to the Seatalk NG backbone via a separate Spur and power cable.

We would then splice into the "Screen and Yellow" wire from the working Seatalk cable and connect it to the Seatalk side of the Seatalk to Seatalk NG adapter cable leaving out the red 12v+ wire.

In this way, both Seatalk and Seatalk NG will have power and will not be connected to each other.

Is this correct?

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-12-16 01:53 PM

Lazybones,

Q1. Is it correct to assume that the Seatalk side of the cable end of the Seatalk to Seatalk NG Cable is the standard "Screen Yellow Red" 3 wire cable?
A1. Yes.

Q2. We understand that power should not be supplied from both sides, Seatalk and Seatalk NG. We are planning to provide power to the Seatalk NG backbone via a separate Spur and power cable. We would then splice into the "Screen and Yellow" wire from the working Seatalk cable and connect it to the Seatalk side of the Seatalk to Seatalk NG adapter cable leaving out the red 12v+ wire. In this way, both Seatalk and Seatalk NG will have power and will not be connected to each other. Is this correct?
A2. This is not correct and may cause a ground loop condition. The SeaTalk bus should be powered by the SeaTalkng backbone via the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Convert(s). Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Lazybones - 08-12-16 02:09 PM

Since I effectively have 8 Seatalk devices:

SG3 autopilot
ST6001 Control
ST 50+ Speed x 2
ST 50+ Wind x 2
ST 50+ Depth
ST 50+ Multi
ST50+ Wired Remote

Does this then mean that I need two Seatalk to Seatalk NG Converters in order to have 5 or less seatalk devices?

If this is the case, additionally there should be no power from the seatalk side and all power would come from the seatalk NG converters?

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-12-16 02:37 PM

Lazybones ,

Q1. Does this then mean that I need two Seatalk to Seatalk NG Converters in order to have 5 or less seatalk devices?
A1. Yes.

Q2. If this is the case, additionally there should be no power from the seatalk side and all power would come from the seatalk NG converters?
A2. The SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converters will joined via an appropriate length of SeaTalkng Backbone Cable. Only one SeaTalkng Power Cable will be used and it will be installed in a Spur socket which will be at the approximate midpoint of the backbone's LEN load.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Lazybones - 08-13-16 10:42 AM

Thanks again.

I need one clarification or perhaps a diagram.

The current SG3 course computer is connected to the ST6001 and ST50+ instruments through from the course computer's seatalk port which I believe is the source of power to the seatalk devices.

If the Seatalk to Seatalk NG converter through its Seatalk side of the adapter cable is supplying power to the seatalk network, how do I eliminate the power that is provided from the course computer?

As you indicated, the original seatalk network should be its own network.

This is why I thought by disconnecting the red 12v+ wire from the joining of the adapter cable to the seatalk network would solve that problem, but you indicated a possible ground loop.

Any suggestions or diagrams to show how this is done? The diagrams in the manuals all show an ST70 as the bridge to Seatalk without showing how the ST50+ instruments would interface to themseleves and the SG3 course computer.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-13-16 03:32 PM

Lazybones,

The red lead of the SeaTalk cable which is presently joining the autopilot course computer to the SeaTalk bus will need to be disconnected from the red terminal of the autopilot course computer's SeaTalk port.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Lazybones - 08-13-16 03:51 PM

Hello Chuck and thanks again.

I am attaching a jpeg diagram just to confirm. I understand now that disconnecting the red at the course computer eliminates the possible ground loop with two separate power sources.

Q: I assume this means that those ST50+ instruments not connected directly to the course computer will get their data over the seatalk NG backbone, back through the 2nd converter, allowing those instruments to act as repeaters?

I am also providing power through a spur to one of the ports on the converter rather then a separate isolated T and spur.

RE: New equipment and integration of existing - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-15-16 08:30 AM

Lazybones,

With the exception of a couple of minor errors, your diagram appears to be correct ...
- a SeaTalkng backbone cable would not be used connect the MFD to the SeaTalkng backbone. Instead, the MFD's SeaTalkng spur socket will be interfaced to a white spur socket of the SeaTalkng backbone via an appropriate length of SeaTalkng Spur Cable (5m maximum). Should the MFD be located more then 5m from the SeaTalk to SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter shown within your diagram, then an additional spur socket will be added to the backbone by installing a SeaTalkng T-Piece or SeaTalkng 5-Way Connector at the location of the MFD and then connecting the SeaTalkng T-Piece or SeaTalkng 5-Way Connector to the blue SeaTalkng backbone socket of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter via an appropriate length of SeaTalkng Backbone Cable.
- a SeaTalkng Termination plug will be installed within the remaining two blue backbone sockets.

Q: I assume this means that those ST50+ instruments not connected directly to the course computer will get their data over the seatalk NG backbone, back through the 2nd converter, allowing those instruments to act as repeaters?

A: Correct.