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+--- Thread: connecting power to new network (/showthread.php?tid=1684)
connecting power to new network - nharrison5 - 08-19-16 12:27 PM
I am upgrading the electronics on my boat. I am replacing a c80, RS125, st60 with two transducers, and vhf 215.
I have ordered and just received an eS127, RS130, Quantum radar (power and wire), Airmar P-79 Raya, Ray60 VHF, EVAutopilot 200 with drive pack, a dst800 A22111, and two MEFI-4 engine gateways which will use a male devicenet to Seatalk ng adapter cable A06046.
I have mapped out the network and will connect the Radar and Sonar to the back of the MFD. The MFD will then be connected to the backbone with a spur cable, as will the rest of the components. I intend to use two 5 way blocks for this with the proper spur cables and terminations.
My question relates to the power set up.
1) The eS127 MFD, Quantum radar, Autopilot (ACU200), and Ray60 VHF all will need their own power based upon what I have been reading.
2) The network backbone also will require it's own power.
My question relates to the dependencies for the power hook up. For instance, under the old set up, when i pressed the power button for the c80, the ST60 and the VHF radio also powered up.
Is there any guidance as to what the dependencies should be for the described system. For instance, Allen at FoxMarine where i bought the engine gateways advised that the gateways should receive power when the engines start. They each draw 30 ma and can drain the batteries over time. However, they are part of the network and will be powered by the house battery, not by the ignition system. The only downside is that you are missing data for 6 seconds which isnt a problem for me.
I currently have them drawn up to receive power from the backbone via a A06049 power cable. I also have the RS130, the Heading sensor, and the DST 800 Triducer set up to receive power from the backbone.
1) What is the proper power set up for this network?
2) Will the MFD kill the power to the instruments connected to the backbone when it is turned off?
3) Or will the backbone continue to provide power to the components listed above. 4) Will the P70 R turn off the power to the Autopilot components when it is switched off?
5) Is there an example available for the proper set up?
I have researched this a bit and could not come up with any real guidance and the way the phone technical support is set up at RayMarine it is componenet based as opposed to system based.
I have attached the system diagram below. If you see any other concerns with it please feel free to let me know.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Nate
RE: connecting power to new network - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-19-16 02:06 PM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Nate,
System diagram comments: Your system diagram appears to be correct with the exception of a missing component ... an i70S Mulitfunction Instrument Display. The i70S is required to calibrate, apply offsets, and establish alarms associated with the DST800.
Power the system: Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject.
Q1. My question relates to the dependencies for the power hook up. For instance, under the old set up, when i pressed the power button for the c80, the ST60 and the VHF radio also powered up.
A1. While C80's SeaTalk port was designed to supply sufficient power to support powering a Raystar 125 GPS Sensor, it was not designed for supply enough power to energize the devices which you have listed. Accordingly, the SeaTalk bus should have been powered from a switched 12VDC power source. In systems where maximizing the amount of system capability in the event of a major component failure is not a priority, it is conceivable that the MFD, SeaTalk bus, and VHF radio may have all been powered by the same 12VDC power circuit. Per the FAQ recommended above, it is considered a best practice that several power circuits be installed to provide power to the marine electronics.
Q2: Is there any guidance as to what the dependencies should be for the described system. For instance, Allen at FoxMarine where i bought the engine gateways advised that the gateways should receive power when the engines start. They each draw 30 ma and can drain the batteries over time. However, they are part of the network and will be powered by the house battery, not by the ignition system. The only downside is that you are missing data for 6 seconds which isnt a problem for me.
A2: I have a FoxMarine engine gateway onboard my own boat. The gateway doesn't have a separate power socket. The gateway simply has a DeviceNet Micro-C (M) socket and cable permitting it be mated to the plug of the engine's diagnostics harness. The SeaTalkng backbone receives power from a switched 12VDC power circuit. I'm certain that this is what Alan had intended. When the marine electronics are switched OFF, then power to the engine gateway is also switched OFF. The Fox Marine engine gateway has performed flawlessly since its installation and has been instrumental in permitting use of the MFD's Fuel Management features. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject.
Q3: What is the proper power set up for this network?
A3: See the FAQ referenced above regarding powering the system.
Q4: Will the MFD kill the power to the instruments connected to the backbone when it is turned off?
A4: No. Per the same referenced FAQ, the MFD's and instruments have a last power state memory feature. As such, I generally advise that all equipment, with the exception of radar transducers, be switched ON/OFF via the breaker / fuse panel. It is recommended that radar transducers be switched to standby mode and permitted to park (for open arrays) before switching them OFF.
Q5: Or will the backbone continue to provide power to the components listed above.
A5: The power circuity supplying power to the SeaTalkng backbone will supply power to RS130, p70R, EV-1, engine gateways, and i70S MFID (not listed) shown within your backbone. The MFD, VHF radio, radome, and ACU-200 will need to be powered their respective power cables / power terminals.
Q6: Will the P70 R turn off the power to the Autopilot components when it is switched off?
A6: No ... switching OFF an i50/i60/i70/p70/p70R via its power button will simply extinguish the product's backlight and LCD. It is recommended that the SeaTalkng and autopilot power circuits be switched OFF when these products will not be used.
Q7: Is there an example available for the proper set up?
A7. See the previously referenced FAQ addressing how to power the marine electronics.
RE: connecting power to new network - nharrison5 - 08-19-16 02:50 PM
Thanks Chuck,
I will study this information this weekend. Nate
RE: connecting power to new network - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-22-16 08:53 AM
You're welcome.
RE: connecting power to new network - nharrison5 - 08-24-16 10:26 AM
Chuck,
I added the I70s and placed on the diagram as a spur connection.
a few more questions for you.
My boat (Carver 33 SS 2006) has a breaker box for the equipment though nothing is wired to it except power from the battery. I can only see the rating on the VHF breaker which is 10 amp and what is required for the Ray60. Given that these all meet the specs in the documents for the ACU200 (20 amp), the Radar (5 amp), and the MFD (15 amp), (along with the radio (10 amp)) when I investigate we should be good to go. I have attached a couple of pictures.
I will add a switch box beside of the breakers. I looked at the West Marine version like the one you have on your system but they are all 15 amp breakers. I would prefer to use an all in one (breaker and switch) but will need varying amperages for the equipment.Since I already have one (if the amperages match), I will just go with the existing one.
Questions for you
1) What amperage breaker should I attach to the backbone power cable? I didn't see any guidelines anywhere and the equipment is described variously as watts, amps, or no description. If that question takes us beyond the forum bandwidth is there anything you could direct me to?
2) I looked at the chart you referenced in another post on LEN values but didnt see the transducers, the Sonar or the RADAR. I couldnt find that info in the docs either. So I don't have LEN values for the transducer (DST800), the radar (Quantum with direct connection to eS127), the sonar (P79 Raya with direct connection to eS127), or the two MEFI's from Fox Marine (By the way, thanks for the info on the MEFI's you directed me to. That was helpful.) I assigned a LEN value of 1 to each just to see how balanced the network was and it came back to 8 and 8. Without LEN values for them one side is off by 1. Should I assign LEN values to them? May have answered my own question here.
3) This question has to do with powering equipment. If I don't connect a switch to the backbone power cable, will the P79 continue sounding with the eS127 powered down? Will the DST 800 continue measuring temperature and depth with the I70s powered down?
4) when I switch off the equipment (using remote switches) will I lose any set up data for any of the equipment?
Thanks again for all of your help.
Nate
RE: connecting power to new network - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-24-16 03:32 PM
Nate,
Q1) What amperage breaker should I attach to the backbone power cable? I didn't see any guidelines anywhere and the equipment is described variously as watts, amps, or no description. If that question takes us beyond the forum bandwidth is there anything you could direct me to?
A2) Per the SeaTalkng Reference Manual, the SeaTalkng circuit must be protected by a 5 A fuse or a circuit breaker providing equivalent protection.
Q2) I looked at the chart you referenced in another post on LEN values but didnt see the transducers, the Sonar or the RADAR. I couldnt find that info in the docs either. So I don't have LEN values for the transducer (DST800), the radar (Quantum with direct connection to eS127), the sonar (P79 Raya with direct connection to eS127), or the two MEFI's from Fox Marine (By the way, thanks for the info on the MEFI's you directed me to. That was helpful.) I assigned a LEN value of 1 to each just to see how balanced the network was and it came back to 8 and 8. Without LEN values for them one side is off by 1. Should I assign LEN values to them? May have answered my own question here.
A2) LEN (Load Eqivalency Numbers) are only applicable to devices are fully powered by the backbone (ex. Raystar 130 GPS Sensor, iTC-5, instrument displays, smart transducers, etc.) or have SeaTalkng communications interfaces which are powered by the backbone (ex. MFDs, autopilot ACUs, etc.). Accordingly, only devices which have been directly interfaced as spurs to a SeaTalkng backbone need to be considered. As only the only the communications interface of a MFD is powered by the SeaTalkng backbone the MFD will have a LEN of 1, irrespective of whether it has been interfaced to a fishfinder transducer or radar transducer.
Q3) This question has to do with powering equipment. If I don't connect a switch to the backbone power cable, will the P79 continue sounding with the eS127 powered down?
A3) When the MFD is powered OFF, the P79 fishfinder transducer will no longer ping.
A4) Will the DST 800 continue measuring temperature and depth with the I70s powered down?
A4) Yes.
Q5) when I switch off the equipment (using remote switches) will I lose any set up data for any of the equipment?
A5) No
RE: connecting power to new network - nharrison5 - 08-24-16 04:13 PM
Thank you Chuck. I apologize for a couple of the repetitive questions. Now time for the install.
Nate
RE: connecting power to new network - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 08-24-16 04:21 PM
You're welcome.