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Seatalk2 to STng - Kevin - 12-12-16 03:03 PM
I'm currently trying to straighten out some networking on a sailboat that has had several generations of electronics installed and I'd like to streamline and simplify the interfaces.
At the end of summer I had installed 2 eS127 MFDs to replace E-Classic displays. For these I used STng to ST2 and RayNet to STHS adapter cables to get it networked for a final cruise. This was serviceable but based on the other stuff already in the boat there were some data loops and redundant adapters.
In addition to the new eS127 MFDs the instruments are ST290 graphic displays, a DPU and separate Depth and Speed Pods all on ST2.
There are also 2 ST290 Wind instruments and a ST290 remote keypad using ST1.
--What I'd like to know is, can all the ST290 components be connected to a new STng backbone with spur cables (ST2 to STng)? This would include centralizing the transducers to an iTC-5.
--Will a ST1 to STng converter transmit necessary data for the ST290 wind displays (ST1) to get wind data from STng? (wind xducer connected to iTC-5) As well as enabling the ST290 remote keypad (Seatalk1) to control the ST290 displays (Seatalk2/STng)?
Thank You
P.S. I know that ST2 was the earlier version of STng and wire conductors are the same, but in the interest of progress I'm trying to adapt forward to STng rather than adapting new components backward to Seatalk2. I just want to make sure they can be connected almost as if they're i70 displays and thus eliminate the DPU.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 12-13-16 04:19 PM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Kevin,
Q1: Can all the ST290 components be connected to a new STng backbone with spur cables (ST2 to STng)? This would include centralizing the transducers to an iTC-5.
A1: While all of the transducers may be shifted to an iTC-5, ST290 devices may not be interfaced as spurs to a SeaTalkng backbone. The following two options would be recommended for this system should you desire to keep the ST290 devices, bearing in mind that the ST290 system is no longer supported and has not been tested with the ST-STng Converter:
- option 1) Keep the ST290 system and backbone as it was initially designed to be installed. Install a SeaTalkng backbone to support the new products and install a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter within the SeaTalkng backbone. Connect the Converter's SeaTalk port to the ST290 DPU's SeaTalk port to support bridging data between the SeaTalkng backbone and the the ST290 system.
- option 2) Install a SeaTalkng backbone to support the new products. The SeaTalkng backbone should include SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter and an iTC-5. An i70 MFID would be installed as a spur to the backbone. Connect the Converter's SeaTalk port to the ST290 DPU's SeaTalk port to support bridging data between the SeaTalkng backbone and the the ST290 system. In this case the ST290 system would simply repeat data from the SeaTalkng backbone. The i70 MFID would be responsible for calibration of the system's transducer. If selecting this option, then care should be taken to ensure that the currently installed wind transducer of the same design as Raymarine's E22078 Standard Forward Wind Transducer or E22079 Long Forward Wind Transducer.
Q2: Will a ST1 to STng converter transmit necessary data for the ST290 wind displays (ST1) to get wind data from STng? (wind xducer connected to iTC-5) As well as enabling the ST290 remote keypad (Seatalk1) to control the ST290 displays (Seatalk2/STng)?
A2: Yes
Q3: I know that ST2 was the earlier version of STng and wire conductors are the same, but in the interest of progress I'm trying to adapt forward to STng rather than adapting new components backward to Seatalk2. I just want to make sure they can be connected almost as if they're i70 displays and thus eliminate the DPU.
A3: See the response to Q1, as it is recommended that the ST2 backbone and DPU be retained should the ST290 Graphic displays will continue to be used within the system. Should the ST290 Graphic display be removed from the system then the remaining ST290 displays supporting SeaTalk communications protocol may simply be interfaced to a SeaTalk bus which in turn has been connected to the SeaTalk port of a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Kevin - 06-26-17 01:19 PM
Sorry to dig up this old thread again but I'm back on the same boat trying to answer some owner questions.
As mentioned there are 2 eS MFDs, a RS130 and iTC-5 (replacing individual pods) on the STng backbone.
ST290 instruments with DPU on ST2.
Autopilot, ST290 instrument remote, MOB button on ST1.
The ST1 network is connected to the ST1 port on the DPU and all of the ST1 connections going to a ST1-STng converter at one point (red 12+ excluded).
Most things are working as they should however there are some nuisance issues.
1) The ST290 remote (connected to ST1 network) beeps but there is no control of the ST290 instruments.
2) Waypoint Arrival: WP arrival pops up on the MFD and on the ST290 instruments when you hit the arrival radius. Hitting the OK on the MFD silences that but does not silence the alarm at the instruments. Since the remote isn't working at the helm you have to silence it at the instruments (companionway or nav station).
I was only able to silence the alarms on the instruments FROM the master MFD a couple times after updating ST1-STng converter to v2.03 (hit or miss, and only on the master). Once I brought the MFDs from v17.46 to v19.03 I couldn't do it again.
3) The COG appears to be different (and wrong) from what the MFDs show. The customer states that it remains correct on the autopilot remote but I haven't verified that.
The ST290 mentions the Waypoint Arrival Alarm in the manual however there is NO option under the Alarms chapter to even turn this off. Tried it in both Sailing and Full profile but couldn't turn up this alarm option.
It seems like the ST290 system is getting the appropriate waypoint data, arrival, range, bearing etc, but it doesn't seem to get the acceptance command from the MFD or anything from the remote. Would the ST1-STng be blocking data in that direction?
Once, again I appreciate you help with this.
Thanks
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 06-26-17 03:01 PM
Kevin,
Unfortunately, support for ST290 is limited and ST-STng Converter testing did not include an ST290 instrument system. Accordingly, should the ST-STng Converter have been updated with the latest available Raymarine product software update and should the behavior(s) persist, then the reported behaviors would be deemed a feature of integrating the ST290s with current equipment. Should the vessel's ST290 system not include a ST290 Graphic Display, then the suggestion to replace the function of the DPU with an i70S MFID, connect the pods to the SeaTalkng backbone, and then connect the ST290 displays to SeaTalk port of the ST-STng Converter has merit. Otherwise, the best that you can do is to ensure that all ST290 and STng equipment has been updated with the latest available software ... should this not correct the behavior, then would be recommended that the customer consider replacing the ST290 system's DPU and any ST290 displays which did not have a basic SeaTalk communications interface.
Q1) The ST290 remote (connected to ST1 network) beeps but there is no control of the ST290 instruments.
A1) I assume that you are referring to the ST290 Autopilot Remote. See the comment above concerning SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter software, as early ST-STng Converter software did not support integration with autopilot systems. I have verified that Auto, Track, and Standby modes may initiated by a ST290 Autopilot Remote which has been interfaced to a SeaTalk bus which has been connected to a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter (i.e. NO DPU in the system). If updated with the latest software, then please specify the make/model of autopilot course computer which has been installed within the system.
Q2) Waypoint Arrival: WP arrival pops up on the MFD and on the ST290 instruments when you hit the arrival radius. Hitting the OK on the MFD silences that but does not silence the alarm at the instruments. Since the remote isn't working at the helm you have to silence it at the instruments (companionway or nav station).
I was only able to silence the alarms on the instruments FROM the master MFD a couple times after updating ST1-STng converter to v2.03 (hit or miss, and only on the master). Once I brought the MFDs from v17.46 to v19.03 I couldn't do it again.
A2) Which specific instruments are sounding an alarm? Does the system feature ST290 graphic displays or other non-analog ST290 displays?
Q3) The COG appears to be different (and wrong) from what the MFDs show. The customer states that it remains correct on the autopilot remote but I haven't verified that.
A3) What specific model of autopilot remote are you referring to?
Q4) The ST290 mentions the Waypoint Arrival Alarm in the manual however there is NO option under the Alarms chapter to even turn this off. Tried it in both Sailing and Full profile but couldn't turn up this alarm option.
A4) Arrival alarms could not be disabled in this generation of Raymarine equipment.
Q5) It seems like the ST290 system is getting the appropriate waypoint data, arrival, range, bearing etc, but it doesn't seem to get the acceptance command from the MFD or anything from the remote. Would the ST1-STng be blocking data in that direction?
A5) If the autopilot, ST-STng Converter, and DPU are each not operating with the latest available software, then this is indeed possible.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Kevin - 06-27-17 07:20 AM
Q1/A1) I'm sorry I should've been clear this is the ST290 Instrument Remote keypad E22063. It's connected to ST1 but other than beeping, won't all you to cycle through control of each display, use Chapter buttons, up/down arrows etc. (Most importantly silence a WP Arrival).
A2) The ST290 system consists of the Data Display (2-line readout), 2 ST290 analog compass and wind instruments, a Graphic Display over the companionway and another Graphic Display down at the nav station.
It is the Graphic displays giving the waypoint arrival alarm.
Q3/A3) Autopilot is the S3G AST course computer, ST7001 controller and ST600R remote. I don't think there was any problem reported with the autopilot system, it was more a matter of where he happened to see the COG displayed correctly, whereas it's incorrect on the ST290 displays.
A4) That's unfortunate, I was hoping to just disable it to prevent the nuisance of separately having to silencing it after already acknowledging it at the MFD.
A5) All of the new equipment is running the latest software i.e. MFDs, ST converter, radar, RS130. Looks like the software available for autopilots only goes back the SPX series so I assume there's probably nothing available for the S3G. Same goes for the ST290 system, I couldn't find the software version in the menu tree anywhere but since this isn't supported anymore and I'm not sure how the DPU etc would even be updated it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Out of all of this almost all of the appropriate data is working across the network. The nuisance for the customer seems to be the inability to silence the WP arrival without having to leave the helm each time to press the button. The instrument remote isn't essential to work other than it would be nice to just hit a button there at the helm and have it work.
The display of the incorrect COG on the instruments isn't critical as it's accurate at the MFDs and on the autopilot, just odd as I'm not sure where it's getting that COG from.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 06-27-17 08:38 AM
Kevin,
Per our discussion, it is recommended that the software level of the S3G be checked and that it be updated if it is found to not be current ... this may be the source of the reported COG issue.
Other than that it would appear that the symptoms reported are simply features of interfacing the latest generation of products to the ST290 system. While some separating the systems and then controlling the flow of data between the systems using some programmable NMEA 0183 multiplexers may address the arrival alarm issue, the time/money may be better spent in evaluating whether the ST290 system may be replaced with current Raymarine product designs.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Kevin - 06-28-17 06:32 AM
Checked autopilot software versions.
Control unit is at Version 03
Course computer is VER 302
According to this...
http://www.raymarine.com/knowledgebase/index.cfm?view=4549
It looks like the autopilot is about as far as it will go software-wise.
We'll look at further options if this continues to be an issue for the customer.
I'm grateful for the help Chuck.
Thanks,
Kevin
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 06-28-17 01:02 PM
You're welcome.
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - tgsail1 - 12-01-17 10:22 AM
Hi- I have 2 related questions. I have an ST290 speed pod and am upgrading instruments to i70/STNG.
1)Will the i70 instrument calibrate the speed pod (is the calibration even done at the pod level?)?
2) I have an ST60 wind instrument which is just fine and I'm not quite ready to replace. It currently gets its water speed data from an old ST50 ST device. If I use one port of the i70 instrument to run ST to the ST60wind instrument, get the speed from the ST290 pod on the STNG/NMEA2000 network, on the other port of the i70, will the speed data pass to the ST60 wind instrument. The tables in the back of the i70 manual seem to say that speed data will be forwarded both ways, but want to be sure.
Thanks
RE: Seatalk2 to STng - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 12-01-17 10:33 AM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum tgsail1,
Q1)Will the i70 instrument calibrate the speed pod (is the calibration even done at the pod level?)?
A1) Should the ST290 instrument pod be interfaced to a SeaTalkng backbone to which the i70/i70S MFID has been interfaced, then the MFID will indeed support calibration of the speed transducer.
Q2) I have an ST60 wind instrument which is just fine and I'm not quite ready to replace. It currently gets its water speed data from an old ST50 ST device. If I use one port of the i70 instrument to run ST to the ST60wind instrument, get the speed from the ST290 pod on the STNG/NMEA2000 network, on the other port of the i70, will the speed data pass to the ST60 wind instrument. The tables in the back of the i70 manual seem to say that speed data will be forwarded both ways, but want to be sure.
A2) The i50, i60, i70, p70/p70S, and p70R/p70RS devices each feature communications circuitry which may support either SeaTalk or SeaTalkng communications, but not both simultaneously. As the i70/i70S MFID will be interfaced to a SeaTalkng backbone to communicate with the ST290 Speed Pod, communications with compatible SeaTalk devices must then be achieved via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter which will be installed as a component within the SeaTalkng backbone.