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ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - olesenrl - 09-09-17 09:39 AM
I have been having erratic operation of the wind and depth sensors for two years now . I have replaced everything. Sometimes the wind speed and/or direction drops out. Sometimes the depth drops out. I have two i70s instruments, the GPS location form the 150 shows on one but not the other display. I have a new AIS 650 installed, the AIS shows on the same good i70s but on the other it says the AIS is off. The i70s's are connected to a SeatalkNG to Seattle converter. The Seattle spur is then connected to the 6001 autopilot. I noticed on the ITC-5 they are flashing led green lights, what does this mean? The backbone is installed correctly. I replaced the ITC-5 with another brand new one, and the problems with the instruments got worse. Except for the one Seattle spur to the autopilot everything is SeattleNG now. As both the wind and depth are intermittent it has been almost impossible to debug this. Everything on the SeatalkNG backbone is now new except the autopilot. I have removed the autopilot from the backbone but the wind and depth are still intermittent. What steps should I take? Could this be an issue with a noisy or bad ground?
RE: ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 09-13-17 01:47 PM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum olesenrl,
Please click here to view a FAQ addressing how to troubleshoot intermittent or failing SeaTalkng communications. Please click here to view a FAQ providing the pinouts for SeaTalkng Backbone and Spur Cables. Faulty SeaTalkng networking components, although very rare in systems featuring unmodified SeaTalkng networking components, may similarly be fault isolated by substituting components with operational components. The most common cause for SeaTalkng network communications failure is a SeaTalkng cable which has not been fully seated in the device or networking component's socket and/or failure to rotate the socket's locking ring into the locked position.
From your problem description, the marine electronics system appears to be limited following components:
- MFD's: No MFDs have been identified within this system
- iTC-5: Verify that the iTC-5 has been installed as a backbone component, not as a spur to the backbone. As with all devices having a SeaTalkng communications interface, it is recommended that you verify that it is been updated with the latest available Raymarine product software update. The software versions of products which have been interfaced to the SeaTalkng backbone may be determined via the command sequence MENU->SET-UP->DIAGNOSTICS->ABOUT SYSTEM from an i70 MFID. This same command sequence may be used to verify communications between devices on the SeaTalkng backbone.
- i70 MFIDs (2): Please see the command sequence above to verify communications between the i70 MFIDs and the other devices on the SeaTalkng backbone as well. Should one of the i70 MFIDs not be communicating with the other devices within the SeaTalkng backbone, then its software version may be determined via the command sequence MENU->SET-UP->DIAGNOSTICS->ABOUT DISPLAY). If each i70 MFID has been updated with the latest software and one of them is not communicating with the other devices within the system, it is first recommended that the MFD be reset (MENU->SET-UP->FACTORY RESET) and that it then be tested again. Should the problem persist, then the fault may be rooted within the i70 MFID's SeaTalkng communications circuitry or within one of the SeaTalkng networking components. By disconnecting the SeaTalkng spur cable from the problematic i70 MFID and then connecting then substituting the operational i70 MFID in its place, the problem may be fault isolated. Should this fault isolation indicate a problem with the i70 MFID, then it should be sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced.
ST6001: ST6001 is the product name for an autopilot control head. Autopilots using a ST6001 autopilot control head minimally consist of the autopilot control head, autopilot course computer, fluxgate compass transducer, rudder reference transducer, and drive unit. Of these, only the autopilot control head and course computer factor in troubleshooting the reported issue. It is unclear which model of autopilot course computer has been installed onboard. Please state the model of autopilot course computer which is installed.
AIS650: see prior comment regarding software updates. The AIS650 is designed to be updated via a SD memory card through it's SD memory card reader slot
Wind Transducer: After addressing the SeaTalkng networking, software, and troubleshooting points raised above, should the neither MFD detect wind, then the indicative of a faulty cable splice, cable failure, failure with of the wind transducer, or failure within the iTC-5, please note that we have had a limited number of customers report that moving the wind transducer's bare lead from the silver Wind Transducer terminal of the to the silver terminal of the iTC-5's speed or depth transducer positions corrected such intermittent wind issues.
The wind transducer cable may be tested by disconnecting the masthead and then performing a continuity test to check for both continuity and to ensure that no shorts (continuity sensed on more than one pin of the masthead mount) are detected. Should the cable test not identify any faults, then please click here to view a FAQ addressing how to test the masthead. Should the masthead testing not indicate a fault with the masthead, then the fault may be rooted in the iTC-5. Should the cable have failed, then it should be replaced. Should the masthead have failed and it has been purchased within the last 30 days, then it should be returned to the dealer or sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced.then it would be recommended that a Factory Reset be commanded to both i70 MFIDs and to the ST70 MFID (assumed). Should the problem persist thereafter.
Depth transducer: Unlike fishfinding products, the iTC-5 will not detect a Depth transducer source unless the transducer is able to receive bottom echoes. Such detection would require the boat be located in the water and that there be at least 3' of water beneath the transducer. Instrument depth transducers and most fishfinding depth transducers will not sense bottom echoes should the vessel be located out of the water.
RE: ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - olesenrl - 09-14-17 01:05 PM
The sys has a E120 and a E80 connected together over SeatalkHS. They are also connected vis Seattle to a Type 300 autopilot course computer, and a SeatalkNG to Seattle converter via a spur on the backbone.
The ITC-5 is installed on the backbone and is verified to have the latest software. When the wind or depth is intermittent I do see a green flashing LED, the instruction manual is confusing what this means other than it is a fault. What can cause this?
The system has two brand new i70s instruments connects via spurs to the backbone. I was not aware one is a master, how can I tell which, and how can I test the communication between them. One of them display all data, including the intermittent wind and depth information, but the other does not display GPS or AIS data.
The autopilot has a ST6001 and Type 300 course computer. It is connected to the master MFD via Seatalk.
The AIS650 appears to work correctly now, and has the latest firmware installed.
The wind transducer has all new and triple checked wiring. At the ITC-5 there is a green flashing LED sometimes. What does this mean what should be done about it. Sometimes the wind direction and/or speed is zero.
The depth transducer works more often than the wind instrument, but also displays zero sometimes.
Everything has been verified to have the latest software. Everything including the wiring has been replaced except the MFD's and is new.
The only guess I have is that there may be a problem with the power provided to the backbone. The voltage level is fine, but may there is noise or the ground is not solid enough. Could this cause these intermittent problems?
I have tried removing everything except one instrument, the wind/depth traduces, and the ITC-5. It was still intermittent.
Two questions:
Q1: How to test the voltage and ground integrity.
Q2: What do the flashing green LEDs on the ITC-5 mean and what should be done to debug why they are flashing.
RE: ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 09-14-17 03:55 PM
olesenrl,
Q1. The sys has a E120 and a E80 connected together over SeatalkHS. They are also connected vis Seattle to a Type 300 autopilot course computer, and a SeatalkNG to Seattle converter via a spur on the backbone.
A1. I have a concern about networking of the system's devices. Please create a diagram of the system (hand drawn will suffice) listing the make/model of each of the system's devices and how each as been interfaced. If it is easier, create separate diagrams each showing the devices which have been interfaced via SeaTalk, via SeaTalkng, and via NMEA 0183 (if any).
Q2. The system has two brand new i70s instruments connects via spurs to the backbone. I was not aware one is a master,
A2. My initial response incorrectly addressed mastership, as it only applies to systems featuring ST60 instruments and i70/i70S MFIDs. In the such cases, should the instrument transducer be interfaced to an iTC-5 and the system feature a SeaTalk instrument display designed to process data from the instrument transducer, then the corresponding ST60 instrument must be configured as a repeater rather than a master of the corresponding type of data.
Q3. How can I tell which, and how can I test the communication between the i70's?A3. Per my initial response, the command sequence MENU->SET-UP->DIAGNOSTICS->ABOUT SYSTEM executed from an i70S MFID will list the other SeaTalkng devices detected by the i70S MFID ... if listed, the devices are communicating. As this command sequence will also provide access to software versions, please respond with all devices listed when this command sequence is executed and additionally specify the version of software listed for the device after selected.
Q4. One of them display all data, including the intermittent wind and depth information, but the other does not display GPS or AIS data.
A4. I believe that the previously requested system diagrams and other information requested above may help here. Please additionally specify the version of software installed within the Data Master E-Series Classic MFD.
Q5. The autopilot has a ST6001 and Type 300 course computer. It is connected to the master MFD via Seatalk.
A5. Noted
Q6. The AIS650 appears to work correctly now, and has the latest firmware installed.
A6. Noted
Q7. The wind transducer has all new and triple checked wiring. At the ITC-5 there is a green flashing LED sometimes. What does this mean what should be done about it.
A7. Depending upon which of the iTC-5's LEDs is flashing, it may be indicative of a problem. In short, when the iTC-5 has detected that it is connected a transducer, its corresponding LED will be illuminated constantly and will be green. However, should the signal from the transducer not be indicative of sensed direction, speed, or depth, then the LED will pulse. In short, if the transducers are operational and subject to speed above 0.0 kts, then the corresponding LED should be solidly illuminated ... accordingly, it is recommended that these LEDs be tested when the vessel is moving under power. See the chart below:
Q8. The depth transducer works more often than the wind instrument, but also displays zero sometimes.
A8. Noted.
Q9. Everything has been verified to have the latest software. Everything including the wiring has been replaced except the MFD's and is new.
A9. The product's age/purchase date is not necessarily an indicator of what version of software is installed within each product. Please use the command sequence specified above to provide the requested list of devices detected by the i70S and each device's respective software level.
Q10. The only guess I have is that there may be a problem with the power provided to the backbone. The voltage level is fine, but may there is noise or the ground is not solid enough. Could this cause these intermittent problems?
A10. Insufficient power is one of the most common causes for equipment oddities such as have been reported. All power, ground, and drain leads and their connector should be inspected / unfastened to ensure that they are free of corrosion and ar tight. Such circuit inspection should occur from the device to the circuit panel and from the circuit panel to the battery switch, and then from the battery switch to the battery terminals. When troubleshooting, the vessel should be connected to shore power, its batteries permitted to achieve full charge, and then the equipment should be tested while still connected to shore power. Only after being able to duplicate problems under these conditions, should network and its devices be inspected for faults.
Q11. I have tried removing everything except one instrument, the wind/depth traduces, and the ITC-5. It was still intermittent.
A11. You may want to consider sending the iTC-5 to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced.
Two additional questions:
Q12: How to test the voltage and ground integrity.
A12: Please click here to view a FAQ addressing the pin assignments for SeaTalkng plugs. The loaded system voltage (i.e. all other vessel circuits powered ON) measured at the SeaTalkng Power Cable's plug and within a spur cable's plug should be battery voltage (i.e. 12VDC).
Q13. What do the flashing green LEDs on the ITC-5 mean and what should be done to debug why they are flashing.
A13. See the response to Q7 above.
Should you need onboard assistance in troubleshooting the system, it is recommended that the assistance of a Certified Raymarine Installer be sought.
RE: ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - olesenrl - 09-14-17 04:17 PM
Thank you for the answers, if I had not already mentioned all software versions for all components were checked and verified to be the latest versions. The E120 and E80 are v5.69.
I will try to put together a diagram and upload it soon.
Unfortunately the certified raymarine dealer was unsuccessful at debugging this. I already spent a lot of time with them.
You have given me a few more ideas of what to check, it will take me a few weeks to do additional tests. I will let you know what I find.
One more question what does "vessel speed timeout" from the ITC-5 mean? Does it mean it is timing out trying to read the sensor? If that is the case what can cause this? What should be checked?
Thanks
RE: ITC-5 i70s Wind Depth Sensors - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 09-18-17 12:49 PM
Olsen,
Vessel speed timeout is an indication that the iTC-5 is not sensing the pulses associated with a moving paddlewheel. Per our discussion, I am looking forward to reviewing your system diagram and to receiving the screen snapshots from each i70 MFID, listing the devices seen by each i70 MFID. I am additionally seeking the software version information specifically found within the the information available for each of the devices as specified by the i70 MFID. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing how the resistance may be measured on the backbone ... it should be verified from one extreme end and then from the other extreme end with only one termination plug installed.