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[CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - markdd3880 - 07-26-18 07:27 AM
Good Morning from New Hampshire
I have recently purchased the Ev200 autopilot and 2 e127 mfd’s with a HD radar dome to replace the outdated Sl70 nav and radar..... which I have to say still performs excellently!. The boat is not presently fitted with an autopilot but it does have an ST60 helm indicator and depth module. These are connected using the seatalk connectors
additionally I have added 2 nmea 0183 connected units - a Dualscan GPS antenna and a Flowscan fuel use monitor that are both wired seperately into the sl70 nmea 0183 wiring
I would very much appreciate any help with the following questions.
1) can the existing rudder reference sender and display be used with the new ev 200 system as I would very much like to retain the rudder indicator visual display
2) can the st60 depth display be equally used and presumably data be displayed on the new monitors?
both depth display and rudder reference are presently connected using a seatalk hub. I have also purchasedthe Seatalk to Seatalk ng converter kit to use if necessary.
3) Is it possible to connect the existing floscan fuel useage display and seperate GPS antenna that are presently wired to the nmea00183 connections on the main SL70 power harness and not into the seatalk connectors?
4)The system is being installed in a 42 flybridge so any preference where the the ev200 core sensor is located with respect to position to waterline and forward or stern of the boat. Ie higher or lower and more forward or stern?
5) I plan to install the ev sensor away from any wiring and metal etc in a cupboard below decks then connect to the actuator in the large stern engine room closer to hydraulic motor is this preferable? Any recommendations on maximum spur cable lenth?
6) I would like to share all information across both e127 screens so do I need to bring in the HD radar into a the HS5 hub then connect to both mfd’s via the hub or can the radar be plugged directly into one of the mfd’s and networked with the 2 nd screen using the HS connections
7) I have a B45 thru hull transducer that was used with a fishfinder can this be used with the ESeries and if compatible how is it connected to the system. If not what transducer is recommended?
8) Does Raymarine have a tech with a good sense of humour near Lake Winnipesauki that can eventually bail me out when I am banging my head on the deck trying to install by myself!!
many thanks for any assistance
Mark
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 07-27-18 02:11 PM
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Mark,
Q1) can the existing rudder reference sender and display be used with the new ev 200 system as I would very much like to retain the rudder indicator visual display
A1. Yes
Q2a) can the st60 depth display be equally used and presumably data be displayed on the new monitors?
A2a. Yes. Raymarine offers the E22158 SeaTalk1 to SeaTalkng Converter kit to support interfacing compatible legacy products having a SeaTalk communications interface (i.e. ST60 Depth) to the system's SeaTalkng backbone. The ST-STng Converter acts as a data bridge between the legacy and currently manufactured products.
Q2b) both depth display and rudder reference are presently connected using a seatalk hub. I have also purchased the Seatalk to Seatalk ng converter kit to use if necessary.
A2. See the response to Q2a. The rudder reference transducer would typically be removed from the ST60 Rudder and would instead be interfaced to the rudder transducer terminals of the ACU-200. The ST60 Rudder will repeat rudder angle data received from the autopilot.
Q3) Is it possible to connect the existing floscan fuel useage display and seperate GPS antenna that are presently wired to the nmea00183 connections on the main SL70 power harness and not into the seatalk connectors?
A3. It would typically be recommended that the Port 1 NMEA 0183 leads of the Power/NMEA 0183/Video Input Cable of either of the MFDs be used to supply the fuel monitor display with GPS data in support of its calculations. Alternatively, should your fuel monitoring equipment feature a NMEA 2000 communications interface, then you may want to consider interfacing the equipment to the system's powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone
Q4)The system is being installed in a 42 flybridge so any preference where the the ev200 core sensor is located with respect to position to waterline and forward or stern of the boat. Ie higher or lower and more forward or stern?
A4. Please see the recommendations within Chapter 3.8 Selecting a location of the Evolution EV-1 and ACU Installation Instructions. Low, midships, and centerline (approx.) will yield best results (assuming no excessive magnetic deviations occurs)
Q5) I plan to install the ev sensor away from any wiring and metal etc in a cupboard below decks then connect to the actuator in the large stern engine room closer to hydraulic motor is this preferable? Any recommendations on maximum spur cable lenth?
A5. This subject is also addressed within Chapter 3.8 Selecting a location of the Evolution EV-1 and ACU Installation Instructions. Your suggested location may be satisfactory. Pay particular heed to the recommendations about excessive heat and/or fuel vapors. Maximum spur length is 6m. If a longer length is required, then the SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone will need to be extended to permit use of a shorter spur cable.
Q6) I would like to share all information across both e127 screens so do I need to bring in the HD radar into a the HS5 hub then connect to both mfd’s via the hub or can the radar be plugged directly into one of the mfd’s and networked with the 2 nd screen using the HS connections
A6. As long as both MFDs will be switched ON whenever the system is in use, a network switch will not be required.
Q7) I have a B45 thru hull transducer that was used with a fishfinder can this be used with the ESeries and if compatible how is it connected to the system. If not what transducer is recommended?
A7. The B45 was produced in several variations to address the needs of specific marine electronics manufacturers and the fishfinder and/or instruments which they produced. Please respond with a photo of the identification tag affixed to the plug end of the transducer's cable. The photo should clearly show all information which is printed on the transducer's tag.
Q8) Does Raymarine have a tech with a good sense of humour near Lake Winnipesauki that can eventually bail me out when I am banging my head on the deck trying to install by myself!!
A8. The equipment if fairly easy to install for someone with basic mechanical / homeowner skills and basic electrical skills. Naturally, we're available via this Forum and via phone (800.539.5539) to offer support. Unfortunately, most Raymarine installers are located on the coast. I believe that Navtronics will travel to the Lakes Region for installations.
I too am a Lake Winnipesaukee boater. If you see an extremely over-accessorized (with respect to Raymarine electronics) 22' Stingray deck boat out on The Big Lake, it's very likely me.
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - markdd3880 - 07-30-18 08:08 AM
Good Morning Chuck
Many thanks for your excellent reply to my many questions.
I did respond just after you posted however my reply has not published for some reason so I will try again. The message I wrote was pending review so maybe its out there somewhere.
I will keep an eye out for you on the lake we are located over in Silver Sands in Gilford. If you are over this way please stop by and say hi. We are the only hardtop Regal 3880 on the planet!
It sounds like the install should be pretty straight forward and I decided to go with the HS5 hub so that we can add further equipment such as ghe Sirius weather module. You may well ask why I need this equipment for merely dodging Eagle Island on Lake Winni..well we are actually planning to take the boat upto the Great Lakes and then continue on the Great Loop hence the “ big gunsâ€.
Couple more questions if I may.
1) As you know the Lake what charts do you recomend for the E127’s while we are still here. I have found the CMap chip very accurate on the existing SL70 but of course cant use that with the new units.
2) When navigating the lake we usually travel at 6 to 8 knots not using the potential power of the Twin 8.1’s which will actually allow us to do 30+ knots ... resulting wake not good for smaller craft!! So we usually alternate running between engines and of course compensating with rudder. This in fact is how we will travel most of our extended journey due to local conditions and to preserve fuel economy. So my question is do you think the EV200 will be able to compensate like this if we only want to alternate engines. Maybe manually settling the steering on an engine change over then switing to AP?
3) I found the end of the sinar transducer but unfortunately it looks like the second number has been scraped off so the numbers tgat are legible are 4.....missing....545 are you able to discern any info from this?
4) on the EV sensor location I have several suitable locations but difficult to keep on centreline exactly. What is the best position relative to the waterline? I can mount above, below or on the waterline around midships.
5) I have sent a message to Flowscan to see if we can adapt the nmea 0813 upto ng or at least Seatalk.
Thanks once again for your help its much appreciated.
Best
Mark
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 07-30-18 09:39 AM
Mark,
Q1) As you know the Lake what charts do you recomend for the E127’s while we are still here. I have found the CMap chip very accurate on the existing SL70 but of course cant use that with the new units.
A1) Please click here to view a thread in which I had recently addressed this subject. Please additionally note that C-Map does offer C-Map 4D Max cartography which is compatible with MFDs running LightHouse II and LightHouse 3 software.
Q2) When navigating the lake we usually travel at 6 to 8 knots not using the potential power of the Twin 8.1’s which will actually allow us to do 30+ knots ... resulting wake not good for smaller craft!! So we usually alternate running between engines and of course compensating with rudder. This in fact is how we will travel most of our extended journey due to local conditions and to preserve fuel economy. So my question is do you think the EV200 will be able to compensate like this if we only want to alternate engines. Maybe manually settling the steering on an engine change over then switing to AP?
A2) While slow speed operation may be a challenge for most autopilots, operating with a single engine may further add to the challenge. I generally recommend that a rudder feedback transducer be installed to maximize autopilot performance for those who will be operating at such speeds. I assume that the vessel feature inboard propulsion and has hydraulic steering?
Q3) I found the end of the sinar transducer but unfortunately it looks like the second number has been scraped off so the numbers tgat are legible are 4.....missing....545 are you able to discern any info from this?
A3) Perhaps we can tackle this another way ... what is the make/model of the device which the transducer is directly mated to at this time?
Q4) on the EV sensor location I have several suitable locations but difficult to keep on centreline exactly. What is the best position relative to the waterline? I can mount above, below or on the waterline around midships.
A4) Given the three options, I would recommend mounting the sensor below the waterline.
Q5) I have sent a message to Flowscan to see if we can adapt the nmea 0813 upto ng or at least Seatalk.
A5) Note. Should the engines feature Mercury Marine's SmartCraft technology, then the option also exists to interface the engines to the marine electronics system and then use the MFD's Fuel Manager feature. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject. Should the engines not feature SmartCraft technology, but feature fuel injection, then it may be possible to use engine gateways from Fox Marine (used on my own boat). I can usually estimate the fuel required to to top off the tanks to within a few tenths of a gallon ... amazes my boating guests. Either option would continue to support sending NMEA 0183 GPS data to your currently installed fuel flow monitor to support its calculations, yet support monitoring of other engine data via the MFDs.
BTW - I understand your rational for gearing up. I too am presently planning to do some northern sections of the Great Loop as well ... Champlain, Erie Canal, St. Lawrence ... have fun prepping operating on the Great Loop!
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - markdd3880 - 07-30-18 10:51 AM
Hi Chuck
Thank you for getting back so quickly. We are at the lake today looks lowest water levels at this time of year I have ever seen.
1) Great info on lake nav thanks I could retain the ol faithful until we leave that would also be an option. I was kind if sad to disconnect the radar snd start changing over after all the years of flawless service!
2)You mention recommending fitting a rudder feedback transducer by this do you mean the transducer that I presently have installed connected to the rudder arm and sending information back to the ST60 helm indicator.
I installed this many years ago it works really well especially for close quarter nav and compensating rudder angle. The EV kit came with another transducer arm and I thought of just mounting this in tandem with the existing to connect to the actuator and just keeping the existing one and its Seatalk system seperate. However if the existing transducer will do the job and as you mentioned before repeat to the St60 Guage then all the better just install the Seatalk to Seatalkng kit that I have.
I have a great place to mount the ev sensor then that is on or just below the waterline many thanks.
3) The transducer I purchased from Airmar I believe and it was connected to an old L760 monitor.... that also worked flawlessly!... I just used it for rock dodging and bottom profiles.
I havnt checked yet to see if this could be plugged directly into the E127
5) The guys at the gas dock always get a kick when I tell them how much fuel down to the 10th of a gallon it will take to fill the boat!
I had contacted mercruiser a couple years ago and they told me that my engines were smartcraft ready but not connected to anything from that respect. They also make a transducer to allow engine data to be displayed so this is definately something I need to further investigate thanks for pointing this out!
It looks like some stunning places to visit on the Northern route. Being an Engineer I am really interested to see those old locks such as “The Big Chute†built all that many years ago and still fuctioning perfectly. Sadly I think next year will be our last yeiar on the lake before we leave for our trip. Fascinating with the new technology plus additions such as “Active Captainâ€... now sold to Garmin I think.. we can preplan and practically travel the route from our armchairs! Incredible.
Very best
Mark
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 07-30-18 12:11 PM
Mark,
Q2)You mention recommending fitting a rudder feedback transducer by this do you mean the transducer that I presently have installed connected to the rudder arm and sending information back to the ST60 helm indicator.
I installed this many years ago it works really well especially for close quarter nav and compensating rudder angle. The EV kit came with another transducer arm and I thought of just mounting this in tandem with the existing to connect to the actuator and just keeping the existing one and its Seatalk system seperate. However if the existing transducer will do the job and as you mentioned before repeat to the St60 Guage then all the better just install the Seatalk to Seatalkng kit that I have.
I have a great place to mount the ev sensor then that is on or just below the waterline many thanks.
A2) The same rudder transducer would instead be interfaced to the ACU-200. The SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter would then be used to bridge rudder data back to the ST60 Rudder. That said, it should be noted that the p70RS Autopilot Control Head also reports rudder angle, making the ST60 Rudder Instrument redundant. For this reason, ST60 Rudder would typically not be installed an a vessel which additionally had an autopilot.
Q3) The transducer I purchased from Airmar I believe and it was connected to an old L760 monitor.... that also worked flawlessly!... I just used it for rock dodging and bottom profiles. I havnt checked yet to see if this could be plugged directly into the E127.
A3) Had the transducer have been previously interfaced directly to the L760's Transducer socket, then it may be adapted (part #E66066) to be mated to the Transducer socket of either of the e127 MFDs.
Q5) The guys at the gas dock always get a kick when I tell them how much fuel down to the 10th of a gallon it will take to fill the boat!
I had contacted mercruiser a couple years ago and they told me that my engines were smartcraft ready but not connected to anything from that respect. They also make a transducer to allow engine data to be displayed so this is definately something I need to further investigate thanks for pointing this out!
A5. You're welcome.
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - markdd3880 - 07-30-18 12:41 PM
Hi Chuck
2)Apologies I did not realize the P70 indicated rudder angle so that would make the St60 redundant as you point out. Therefore I just wire the existing transducer to the actuator and thats basically it correct?
3) The depth transducer was indeed directly plugged into the L760 so the adapter is on the shopping list thank you for resolving this.
I also need to thank you for pointing me at Fox Marines engine data solution.... just ordering up a couple of units right now its a far better solution than the mercury gateway.
I am sure I know the answer to this with you being so involved on the internet but just checking you are aware of the AGLCA membership and website with regards to doing the Great Loop.
Very best
Mark
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 07-30-18 03:42 PM
Mark,
Q2)Apologies I did not realize the P70 indicated rudder angle so that would make the St60 redundant as you point out. Therefore I just wire the existing transducer to the actuator and thats basically it correct?
A2) Correct.
Q3) The depth transducer was indeed directly plugged into the L760 so the adapter is on the shopping list thank you for resolving this.
A3. You're welcome.
Q4. I also need to thank you for pointing me at Fox Marines engine data solution.... just ordering up a couple of units right now its a far better solution than the mercury gateway.
A4. For those of us having fuel injected engines w/compatible ECMs, the Fox Marine engine gateways have proven to be a godsend and are incredibly simple to install and configure.
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - markdd3880 - 07-30-18 06:18 PM
Chuck
Thank you very much for all the assistance. It has resulted in a much better install hopefully!
Last question and I will be out of here promise!
I ordered the E66066 sounder adapter cable that you recommended so this plug directly into one of the E127’s or do I need to go through a DSM and if so any recommendations
Best
Mark
RE: [CA11] Upgrading from SL70 to ev200 and E127’s - Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator - 07-31-18 07:37 AM
Mark,
Q1. I ordered the E66066 sounder adapter cable that you recommended so this plug directly into one of the E127’s or do I need to go through a DSM and if so any recommendations
A1. Use of the E66066 transducer adapter cable will eliminate the DSM from the system. Typically, an operational DSM300 would only be left in a system if the system featured or will feature a 1kW or 2kW 50kHz/200kHz transducer ... the B45 is a 600W transducer.