[CA] [CA11] ST60+, seatalk1, seatalk NG, ray55e, A70D and ST2000+

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Hi Chuck,
I hope this is worth posting as it brings together a combination of gear that I have not found anywhere else on the forum.

I have inherited a bunch of displays and transducers with a boat that I just bought. Only the speed and depth transducers are currently installed. The previous owner took all his new instruments with him (B&G).
I’m pretty sure the speed and depth transducers are raymarine but will need to check model etc. next time I’m on the boat.

I’ve studied all the manuals and read a lot of forum posts and FAQ’s and I think I have come up with a workable system as shown on the attached diagram.
I’d really appreciate it if you could check it out for me and let me know if it’s any good.
If this system is workable then it’s a real testament to raymarine’s ability to support old equipment so that it makes up a useful system in a cost effective way.

I have a few questions too:

Questions
1
Is the system layout ok generally?
2
Is Heading input required for GWD calculation? What transducer options are available and what is best option to connect to system? I assume there is no way to output heading data from ST2000+ to the bus and anyway, it is usually not connected.
3
Will GPS Data (Waypoints, COG etc.) get to ST2000?
4
Will any autopilot data and alarms be visible or controllable from ST60+ graphic?
5
Will wind data get to ST2000+ for wind angle steering?
6
The A70D manual shows an NMEA converter between it and the sea talk bus, is this required? I’m thinking that for connection to Sea Talk NG (as shown on the diagram) this may not required.
7
If I add an ITC-5 to gather depth and speed transducer data direct to Sea Talk NG, will I still be able to calibrate speed/depth? Is there any real benefit to doing this? Or is it ok as is?
8
If ST2000+ is disconnected (as it usually will be) will this have any effect on the system?
9
I am considering the option to add ST 60+ Depth instrument to Sea Talk 1 bus but don't see the need, since depth data is not used by any other calculation on the system and the depth display is all I need to display it. Is there any benefit to connecting it?
10
Is there anything in this system that can calculate and display set and drift (tide/current flow) information? What would I need to add to get that data?
11
Any problem with sharing a speaker between Fusion Stereo system and Ray55? A toggle switch would be fitted so that only one device would be connected to the speaker at a time.
12
Any ferrites needed anywhere in the system?
13
Any other tips, hints or ideas?
14
There is no ground system on the boat so all grounds will be connected to the negative battery terminal. Is this ok? Is it better to have a separate ground
15
If you were to recommend one or two new bits of gear to buy to really add functionality to this system, what would they be?
16
I did not get a chart card with the system. I have C map chart licenses for an iPad App. Is there any way to use these on the A70D, or do I need to buy a particular type of chart format?

Looking forward to your reply.

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Dave,

Q1. Is the system layout ok generally?
A1. The diagram appears correct in all but the use of a transducer pod. Instrument transducers which have been interfaced to an instrument pod or iTC-5 cannot be calibrated by a ST40/ST60/ST60+/i50/i60 instrument. Systems featuring an instrument transducer pod or iTC-5 must feature in i70S/i70 MFID or an ST70 MFID (retired). The MFIDs are responsible for calibration of any instrument transducers which have been interfaced to an iTC-5 and for setting any alarms associated with data from these transducers.

Q2a. Is Heading input required for GWD calculation?
Q2a. Yes.

Q2b. What transducer options are available and what is best option to connect to system? I assume there is no way to output heading data from ST2000+ to the bus and anyway, it is usually not connected.
A2b. Incorrect. Assuming that system will feature the A70D MFD referenced within Q6, then a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter Kit would be used to interface the ST2000+ and ST60+ instruments to a powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone to which the MFD will be interfaced as a spur.

Q3. Will GPS Data (Waypoints, COG etc.) get to ST2000?
Q3. When the MFD has been commanded to execute a Go To Waypoint/Cursor or Follow Route command, the navigational data will be transmitted by the MFD to the SeaTalkng / NMEA 200 backbone will be bridged to to the unpowered SeaTalk bus by the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to permit use of the autopilot's Track feature.

Q4. Will any autopilot data and alarms be visible or controllable from ST60+ graphic?
A5. Negative.

Q5. Will wind data get to ST2000+ for wind angle steering?
A5. Should the ST60+ Instruments be interfaced to the same SeaTalk bus as is the autopilot (as is shown within your diagram) or should the system feature one bus for the ST60+ Instruments and a second bus for the ST2000+, each interfaced to the backbone by a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter, then wind data would indeed be available for the autopilot to sail to wind.

Q6. The A70D manual shows an NMEA converter between it and the sea talk bus, is this required? I’m thinking that for connection to Sea Talk NG (as shown on the diagram) this may not required.
A6. The A-Series Classic MFD's manual was produced prior to the introduction of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter Kit. Please refer to the response to Q6.

Q7. If I add an ITC-5 to gather depth and speed transducer data direct to Sea Talk NG, will I still be able to calibrate speed/depth? Is there any real benefit to doing this? Or is it ok as is?
A7. Negative. Systems featuring an iTC-5 must feature in i70S/i70 MFID or an ST70 MFID (retired). The MFIDs are responsible for calibration of any instrument transducers which have been interfaced to an iTC-5 and for setting any alarms associated with data from these transducers.

Q8. If ST2000+ is disconnected (as it usually will be) will this have any effect on the system?
A8. Yes. Data items which are dependent upon heading data will be unable to be calculated or displayed.

Q9. I am considering the option to add ST 60+ Depth instrument to Sea Talk 1 bus but don't see the need, since depth data is not used by any other calculation on the system and the depth display is all I need to display it. Is there any benefit to connecting it?
A9. Depending on where the vessel will be operated and how well you know the waters depth data is typically considered to be as important, if not more important than GPS data to the safe operation of the vessel. That said, should the A70D MFD be interfaced to a compatible fishfinder transducer, then it will not only supply depth data to the system, but will also plot the bottom, indicate bottom hardness, and support fishfinding.

Q10. Is there anything in this system that can calculate and display set and drift (tide/current flow) information? What would I need to add to get that data?
A10. Yes. Set and drift are components of the vector difference between the Over Ground Vector and the Through Water Vector. These vectors require COG, SOG, Heading, and Speed Through Water data to correctly perform the calculation of set and drift.

Q11. Any problem with sharing a speaker between Fusion Stereo system and Ray55? A toggle switch would be fitted so that only one device would be connected to the speaker at a time.
A11. This is typically not recommended due to the potential for damaging the circuitry of either product. I believe that there may be some third party solutions in the marketplace for automatic switching where priority is assigned to the VHF radio (other other source designated by the operator). However Raymarine does not offer any such products. The best installation practice would typically call for installing a dedicated speaker.

Q12. Any ferrites needed anywhere in the system?
A12. Not unless RF noise is detected when operating the equipment. Then the ferrites would be applied to the power cable of the device which is producing RF emissions.

Q13. Any other tips, hints or ideas?
A13. Negative.

Q14. There is no ground system on the boat so all grounds will be connected to the negative battery terminal. Is this ok? Is it better to have a separate ground.
A14. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject.

Q15. If you were to recommend one or two new bits of gear to buy to really add functionality to this system, what would they be?
A15. If traveling congested waters in periods of low visibility, then you may want to consider adding an AIS350 AIS receiver or AIS700 AIS transceiver to the system.

Q16. I did not get a chart card with the system. I have C map chart licenses for an iPad App. Is there any way to use these on the A70D, or do I need to buy a particular type of chart format?
A16. The A-Series Classic MFDs running the final A-Series Classic MFD software update were exclusively designed to support Navionics Gold (now Navionics+), Platinum (not Platinum Plus), and HotMaps cartography stored on CF memory cards or microSD memory cards (requires the A62311 Raymarine Cartography Adapter which is no longer available).

[[email protected]]

HI Chuck, thanks for the quick and informative reply.
According to your advice, I have modified the layout as shown on the attachment.
I have added some new questions

Q1. OK, so probably better to connect the speed transducer direct to the ST60+ Speed instrument, so that I can calibrate it.
Assume system functionality will be the same but I'll just need a longer cable for the speed transducer?

Q2b. If I am reading your reply correctly, my system will be able to use ST2000+ heading as the heading data for GWD calculation, as long as the ST2000+ is connected to its socket (which is wired in to the seatalk 1 bus). Have I understood that correctly?

Q2c. This heading data will be available even when the ST2000+ is not in use. For example, if I do not have the tiller pilot mounted on deck but, say, I put it in a compass suitable location down below but still connected to the socket and in stand-by mode. Is that correct? Does it matter how the ST20000+ is oriented?

Q6. That is, if I connect the A70D on the Seatalk NG converter spur, then it will be connected to the rest of the system ok. Correct?

Q7. OK, then I will avoid the ITC-5 (and remove the transducer pod from the sytem too, as above). All transducers will be connected directly to their dedicated ST60+ instruments and I will be able to calibrate them and set their alarms. Correct?

Q9. I will have depth display on the ST60+ so that is ok for navigation. I suppose I could display depth on the ST60+ Graphic too but it will be right next to the Depth display anyway, so not much benefit.
Would it be possible to display depth data on the A70D if I connect the depth instrument to the seatalk 1 bus (assuming A70D and seatalk 1 bus are both connected to the seatalk 1 to seatalk NG Converter)?

Q10. Just to clarify. I see I have all the inputs for set and drift calculation but is there anything in the system that will automatically do the calculation and display it in real time? For example, can it be displayed on the ST60+ Graphic display?

Q16. OK, I do have the adapter, so I just need to buy a navionics card to put in it?

Q17. Is it possible to connect the ST2000+ to a white or yellow Seatalk NG Spur connection on the converter (using the same wore colour/terminal combinations as for ST1)?

Q18. Is it necessary to buy a preloaded micro SD chart card? Or can I download the charts and copy to card myself?

Q19A. With the equipment on my system, is it possible to install software updates (for any of the ST60+ instruments, A70D, ray55e and/or ST2000+)?

Q19B. Could you please list the latest software version for each item, so I can check my gear when I finally get it powered up?

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

The updated diagram is missing SeaTalkng power insertion to the backbone (ST-STng Converter). The diagram should be modified to included a SeaTalkng Power Cable connected to one of the two spur sockets of the ST-STng Converter. This cable should be connected to a switched 12VDC power circuit.

Q1. OK, so probably better to connect the speed transducer direct to the ST60+ Speed instrument, so that I can calibrate it. Assume system functionality will be the same but I'll just need a longer cable for the speed transducer?
A1. Negative. Speed through water sensors feature non-linear scaling. Accordingly, reported speed through water will be most accurate when the vessel is operating at the speed(s) that the instrument was calibrated. Unlike the iTC-5/i70S MFID combination which support up to five speed through water calibration points permitting speed to be accurate across a greater range of boat speeds, the ST40/ST60/ST60+/i50 speed sensing sensing instruments support only a single calibration point.

Q2b. If I am reading your reply correctly, my system will be able to use ST2000+ heading as the heading data for GWD calculation, as long as the ST2000+ is connected to its socket (which is wired in to the seatalk 1 bus). Have I understood that correctly?
A2b. Yes.

Q2c. This heading data will be available even when the ST2000+ is not in use. For example, if I do not have the tiller pilot mounted on deck but, say, I put it in a compass suitable location down below but still connected to the socket and in stand-by mode. Is that correct? Does it matter how the ST20000+ is oriented?
A2c. This would indeed be possible. My expectation is the the heading reported will not be nearly as accurate as it would be for a system featuring a dedicated heading sensor. Understandably, other data items, specifically data items which are calculated from heading, may be affected as well. The calculated data items using heading data will only be as accurate as the heading supplied to the system.

Q6. That is, if I connect the A70D on the Seatalk NG converter spur, then it will be connected to the rest of the system ok. Correct?
A6. Correct.

Q7. OK, then I will avoid the ITC-5 (and remove the transducer pod from the sytem too, as above). All transducers will be connected directly to their dedicated ST60+ instruments and I will be able to calibrate them and set their alarms. Correct?
A7. If an iTC-5 and i70S MFID are not installed onboard, then the calibration and alarms must be configured by the instruments that the transducers have been directly connected to.

Q9. I will have depth display on the ST60+ so that is ok for navigation. I suppose I could display depth on the ST60+ Graphic too but it will be right next to the Depth display anyway, so not much benefit.
Would it be possible to display depth data on the A70D if I connect the depth instrument to the seatalk 1 bus (assuming A70D and seatalk 1 bus are both connected to the seatalk 1 to seatalk NG Converter)?
A9. Yes ... as numerical data item. Doing so would not support the MFD's fishfinder feature.

Q10. Just to clarify. I see I have all the inputs for set and drift calculation but is there anything in the system that will automatically do the calculation and display it in real time? For example, can it be displayed on the ST60+ Graphic display?
A10. Supplying the required data items to the system would support displaying set and drift data on any device within the system which is capable of displaying these data items.

Q16. OK, I do have the adapter, so I just need to buy a navionics card to put in it?
A16. The MFD must also be operating with the latest available Raymarine product software update as well. The latest versions of software and installation instructions for all products which may be updated by an end user are posted on Raymarine's web site.

Q17. Is it possible to connect the ST2000+ to a white or yellow Seatalk NG Spur connection on the converter (using the same wore colour/terminal combinations as for ST1)?
A17. Negative. The ST2000+ must be interfaced as is presently shown within your diagram.

Q18. Is it necessary to buy a preloaded micro SD chart card? Or can I download the charts and copy to card myself?
A19. The A-Series Classic MFDs are exclusively designed to support Navionics Gold (now Navionics+), Platinum (not Platinum Plus), and HotMaps cartography. All of these support Freshest Data update subscriptions. These products are purchased from an authorized Navionics dealer.

Q19A. With the equipment on my system, is it possible to install software updates (for any of the ST60+ instruments, A70D, ray55e and/or ST2000+)?
A19A. As indicated above, The latest versions of software and installation instructions for all products which may be updated by an end user are posted on Raymarine's web site. Of the devices listed, an owner would only be capable of updating the software within the MFD and ST-STng Converter. No software updates were available or performed for ST40/ST60/ST60+ instruments an the ST2000+a. Ray55/Ray55e VHF radios cannot be updated end users and if they have older software, then they may be sent to Raymarine's Product Repair Center to have its software updated.

Q19B. Could you please list the latest software version for each item, so I can check my gear when I finally get it powered up?
A19B: A70D: v1.24; ST-STng Converter: v2.03; Ray55E: v2.01.

[[email protected]]

HI Chuck,
Thanks very much once again.
Just a few points I’m not quite clear on.

Q1. I am not Grand Prix racing, just cruising and twilight racing mostly.
I’m really only looking at a speed range of about 3 to 6 knots where i’m Interested in a bit of accuracy. Is there a really significant benefit in multi-point calibration over such a small range (considering the cost of an MFID)?

Q2c. If the heading data from the ST2000+ is not as good as data from a dedicated heading sensor, could you please suggest some suitable (preferably low cost) heading sensor options that would work with my system?
Looks like I would need another ST NG or ST 1 spot to connect it to. I think another ST1 to STNG converter might be best.

Q2d. If I decide to stay with using the ST2000+ For heading data (down below option as described previously), I would make sure it s firmly held in position but does the orientation of the ST2000+ matter? That is would it have to be placed across the boat in a similar orientation as if it was on the tiller?

Q10. Are the ST60+ Graphic or A70D capable of displaying set and drift data? In the manuals, it doesn’t look like it for the graphic but it’s not clear about the A70D.

I hope to get all this up and running in the next few weeks and will report back on how it goes.

Gotta say again, it’s great how Raymarine have made sure their old gear is compatible with the new so that people can get cost effective upgrades and functionality without spending too much. Apple could learn a thing or two...just sayin’.
It’s also great that you provide expert advice to support these old products, many companies do not bother.
I’ve always been on boats with B&G or Ockam before but I’m becoming a big Raymarine fan.

Thanks Again,
Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

Q1. I am not Grand Prix racing, just cruising and twilight racing mostly.
I’m really only looking at a speed range of about 3 to 6 knots where i’m Interested in a bit of accuracy. Is there a really significant benefit in multi-point calibration over such a small range (considering the cost of an MFID)?
A2. Indeed the i70/i70S MFIDs would be more applicable to a racer than a cruiser. those needing the highest level of speed accuracy would be advised to choose the i70/i70S MFID.

Q2c. If the heading data from the ST2000+ is not as good as data from a dedicated heading sensor, could you please suggest some suitable (preferably low cost) heading sensor options that would work with my system?
Looks like I would need another ST NG or ST 1 spot to connect it to. I think another ST1 to STNG converter might be best.
A2c. Unfortunately, equipment of the vintage specified is not designed to support multiple sources of any single type of data. Accordingly, should the ST2000+ be present in the system, then it must be the source of heading data for the system.
There are limitations to COG's ability to function as a substitute for heading data (i.e. when the vessel is stationary or maneuvering at slow speed, or under the influence of leeway (current or wind), then COG may not be representative of the vessel's heading). The slower the vessel's speed through water, the more it will be subjected to leeway effects, resulting in greater differences between heading and COG. For older systems such this which feature a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 communications backbone and lack an autopilot, it would typically be recommended that an EV-1 CCU, Airmar H2183, KVH AutoComp 1000, etc. be used for a heading source. The principal advantage of the EV-1 Sensor Core is superior heading performance, a single point of contact for support associated with the MFD and/or the heading sensor, and it may form part of a future autopilot upgrade.

Q2d. If I decide to stay with using the ST2000+ For heading data (down below option as described previously), I would make sure it s firmly held in position but does the orientation of the ST2000+ matter? That is would it have to be placed across the boat in a similar orientation as if it was on the tiller?
A2d. If not placed in the exact orientation, it would be necessary to realign the heading of ST2000+ to reflect the new orientation. That said, it is certainly possible that new location may have a different magnetic deviation associated with it, which would be unaccounted for unless the autopilot was re-calibrated for deviation in the new location. This proposed scenario is less than optimal. If seeking quality heading for the system, you may want to consider interfacing the ST2000+ to the system via NMEA 0183 rather than SeaTalk and then installing a quality heading sensor. If your simply looking for a data value to populate a databox or be used in a calculation where the results are not critical, then move forward with your proposed plan for the ST2000+. Further quantification of the effects of cannot be provided.

Q10. Are the ST60+ Graphic or A70D capable of displaying set and drift data? In the manuals, it doesn’t look like it for the graphic but it’s not clear about the A70D.
A10. The A-Series Classic MFDs support displaying Set and Drift both as a numerical values and via Tide Vector features. The ST60/ST60+ Graphic Display is not designed to support Set and Drift.

General comment: Please click here to view a FAQ addressing installations such as this. Of the equipment specified, please be aware then Raymarine can no longer service ST60/ST60+ Instruments (i50/i60 instruments are drop-in replacements), nor can Raymarine provide parts and service for A-Series Classic MFDs.

[[email protected]]

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for another informative reply.

In line with your earlier recommendation I’ve been keeping an eye out for AIS gear.
I’ve found a second hand AIS 350 and AIS Splitter 100 for sale at a good price.
It looks like this gear would be easy to network to the ST NG network in my system but i’m Not sure if that’s all there is to it.

Would I be able to display AIS Data on my old A70D MFD?
Would there be any other problems with this addition to the system?

Cheers
Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

A-Series Classic MFDs are indeed capable of displaying AIS and plot AIS targets. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing how an AIS receiver or AIS transceiver must be interfaced to these retired MFDs.

[[email protected]]

HI Chuck,
Is there any way to operate the A70D with DGPS corrections?
Perhaps an external GPS antenna would be required, if so what options are available/suitable?
Cheers
Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

Q. Is there any way to operate the A70D with DGPS corrections?
A. Negative. The positional accuracy of WAAS GPS Sensors (Satellite Differential (SD)) has largely eliminated the gains which has once been provided by land base differential GPS beacons. The A-Series Classic MFDs are designed acquire GPS position data via the MFD's internal GPS sensor or from a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 or NMEA 0183 source of such GPS data. When using an external GPS source, the MFD's internal GPS sensor should be configured OFF. The A-Series Classic MFDs feature a Chart Offset feature to address georeferencing errors which were not uncommon some chartlets within early electronic cartography offerings. Such issues are quite rare within currently available electronic cartography.