[CA] [CA11] GPM400 to Axiom Pro upgrade/retrofit

[anthem]

Existing
-Dual Raymarine G Series Processors
-Dual 15" Ambient Nav Daylight Displays Helm
-Dual 12" Sunlight KepM/Raymarine Displays Flybridge
-Wireless G series keyboard at Helm and Flybridge
-Raymarine G series SuperHD 4kw 4' Open Array Radar
-Raymarine DSM300 depth/fish finder
-Airmar BL744VL Transducer
-Raymarine SR100 Sirius weather/radio
-Raymarine VPM400 Video distribution module
-Raymarine Class B AIS module
-Raymarine ST70 multifunction display Helm and Flybridge
-Simrad RS8700 VHF dual stations with speaker
-Raymarine SPX-30 Autopilot with flybridge/helm ST70 autopilot control heads.
-Hynautic T2 pumps
-Raymarine rudder feedback

So thats my equipment list. . . some older outdated models that I’d like to look at updating . . This is for a dual helm setup (flybridge and main). Both are driven with external monitors right now which will be changed out to the new touchscreen models.

Looking at the Axiom Pro 16” RVX for lower, and Axiom Pro 12 for upper. Some of the units are no longer compatible. I believe the BL744VL will interface directly with the Axiom Pro RVX with adapter cable by removing the DSM300, so that should be fine.

I imagine I’ll have to get the HS5 network switch and interface that with the HSS switch to interface the two. But if I bring just one Axiom Pro 16 online, will the dual GPM400 have to be completely disconnected when I do that ? Or can they coexist on the same HS5/HSS Raynet, STng network ? It seems like I have to do a hard disconnect when that happens - well certainly with the direct transducer connection into the Axiom (does the Axion put that information back onto the NG network for the older GPM400’sn to get ?).

I’m also replacing the Simrad 8700 with the Raymarine 260 with AIS but thats an easy job.

From my research here, the SPX-30 autopilot and the SuperHD radar appear to be compatible with the Axiom Pro as well. One is on NG and the other I think is on the SeatalkHS.

Not terribly worried about the SR100 or the VPM400.

Any other thoughts and caveats I should be aware of ?

Also, I see the Axiom XL 16 just got released. Is there a compelling reason to choose one over the other (Axiom Pro vs Axiom XL). One looks to have some knobs and entry mechanisms while the other is for a totally enclosed bridge ?

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Anthem,

Q1. I believe the BL744VL will interface directly with the Axiom Pro RVX with adapter cable by removing the DSM300, so that should be fine.
A1. Should the B744VL transducer's cable's plug have been able to be mated to the DSM300's transducer socket without need of adaptation, then this transducer may indeed be adapted to be interfaced to the 1kW Transducer socket of an Axiom Pro RVX MFD.

Q2. I imagine I’ll have to get the HS5 network switch and interface that with the HSS switch to interface the two.
A2. The currently installed SeaTalkhs Cables may be adapted to be mated to the Ethernet Network (RayNet) socket of the Axiom Pro MFDs.

Q3. But if I bring just one Axiom Pro 16 online, will the dual GPM400 have to be completely disconnected when I do that ?
A3. Yes.

Q4. Or can they coexist on the same HS5/HSS Raynet, STng network ?
A4. The GPM400s cannot be interfaced to the same Ethernet network in which is use to network the Axiom Pro MFDs. It is recommended that the GPM400s be removed and that the existing switch(es) be left in place to support networking the Axiom MFDs to the existing system. The VPM400 and SR100 would need to be removed ... SR100 replaced with SR150. Analog video sources may be interfaced to the MFDs (one per MFD) or encoded to be shared within the network. Unlike earlier generations of MFDs, Axiom Pro MFDs are designed to share analog video with the systems other Axiom MFDs.

Q5. It seems like I have to do a hard disconnect when that happens - well certainly with the direct transducer connection into the Axiom (does the Axion put that information back onto the NG network for the older GPM400’sn to get ?).
A5. If seeking a more modular approach, it would be recommended that you consider a CP370 50kHz/200kHz Fishfinder Sounder Module or RVX1000 3D CHIRP Sonar Module (would additionally support RealVision, DownVision, SideVision when accessorized with RealVision transducer). Like the Axiom Pro RVX MFDs, the RVX1000 1kW Transducer socket may be adapted to be mated to a compatible 50kHz/200kHz fishfinder transducer.

Q6. From my research here, the SPX-30 autopilot and the SuperHD radar appear to be compatible with the Axiom Pro as well. One is on NG and the other I think is on the SeatalkHS.
A6. Correct. The key feature to understand is that the Autopilot Controls feature of LightHouse 3 software is not supported with SPX autopilots. In all other regards, SPX autopilots will perform with MFDs running LightHouse 3 software much as the autopilot would have performed with the GPM400.

Q7. Any other thoughts and caveats I should be aware of ?
A7. None other than considering the installation of Axiom XL 16 MFDs and a RMK-10 Remote Keypad at the lower station if seeking an installation which is more glass bridge-like in appearance.

Q8. Also, I see the Axiom XL 16 just got released. Is there a compelling reason to choose one over the other (Axiom Pro vs Axiom XL). One looks to have some knobs and entry mechanisms while the other is for a totally enclosed bridge ?
A8. Indeed, the primary difference is in the appearance and screen technology. As indicated above, Axiom XL MFDs would be recommended for those seeking a glass bridge appearance to the helm. Axiom XL MFDs may also be interface to a PC to permit the MFD to repeat the screen image of the PC and to remotely control the PC.

[anthem]

Chuck - Thanks for the response. . very helpful. . I was one of the first GPM installations I think way back in the day. Even had a G series sepcialist with Steve C and Chris C. . not even sure if they are still around. .. there were'nt a lot of GPM installations thats for sure.. . lol

anyhow, of course there is some follow up. . . Good to know on the SR100 and VPM400. I think the VPM400 had more satellite video feed into it than cameras. . The cameras are analog, so I imagine moving to IP will be in the future..

Follow - up questions. I'll even format them the way you like to respond :-)

Q1 - You mention the SPX autopilots have a slightly limited feature when interfaced with the Axiom. It appears that all functionality works as it is now, but if you want a bit more feature/functionality from the Axiom/LH3 - then you would need to be using the Evolution line of AutoPilots ?

Q2 - if the evolution line of autopilots answer is yes above - then is the change over of just the actuator unit applicable for the auto pilot ? As in its almost plug and play in that - the hydraulic pump needs to be interfaced (mines is a hynautic T2 that is being driven by the SPX)., the rudder feedback and the P70R head unit. Anything else that needs to be done when switching from an SPX-30 to ACU auto pilot ?

Q3 - what is the corresponding unit that matches the SPX30 ? The Evolution ACU-300 ?

Q4 - HSS/HS5 - I was thinking of just adding an HS5 and x-connecting the two switches with the adapter cable (RJ45M to RayNet M). Is it better to do that - or just go to the HS5 and use adapter cables to connect any older SeaTalkHS units to the HS5 (namely Radar and cant think of anything else on the HS network).


Q5 - Is the Axiom XL also touch screen eventhough essentially you want the RMK type of external input ?

Q6 is the Axiom XL 16 just announced or is shipping now ? I see later ship dates on the larger units, but not sure if the XL 16 is shipping now.

Q7 - Does the AXiom XL 16 come with mounting brackets ? As in to table mount upright rather than flush mounting. My bottom helm currently has two industrial mounts that mount the screens for the GPM. I know the existing mounts wont work, but wondering if the mounts are currently available now or a future release thing.

Q8 I have the CP370 on order (some sort of sale going on today). So i'll modularize the unit for now. But I think I should have gotten the 470 or 570 as the internal unit is equivalent to the 470. However, the transducer I have B744TL doesnt seem to be listed as a compatible transducer to the 470/570 units. . And the 370 appears to be a working replacement to the current DSM300.

Q9- i have always used navionics. I see the Axiom has Navionics and lighthouse. Is there a reason to run navionics other than familiarty if it seems RM seems to be pushing toward more LH ? I understand LH seems to cover both the OS and the actual maps. But from the map perspective - is there a larger feature set of one vs the other ?

Thanks for all the help and answers. Hopefully I didnt repeat anything that has already been answered elsewhere. tried to look through as many threads before posting.

regards
Ed

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Q1 - You mention the SPX autopilots have a slightly limited feature when interfaced with the Axiom. It appears that all functionality works as it is now, but if you want a bit more feature/functionality from the Axiom/LH3 - then you would need to be using the Evolution line of AutoPilots ?
A1. Correct. If you are presently commanding your autopilot into Auto, Track, and Standby modes via the GPM400, then you will need to do so via the autopilot control head should the SPX autopilot not be replaced by an Evolution autopilot.

Q2 - if the evolution line of autopilots answer is yes above - then is the change over of just the actuator unit applicable for the auto pilot ? As in its almost plug and play in that - the hydraulic pump needs to be interfaced (mines is a hynautic T2 that is being driven by the SPX)., the rudder feedback and the P70R head unit. Anything else that needs to be done when switching from an SPX-30 to ACU auto pilot ?
A2. Replacing an SPX30 would require replacing the SPX30 with an ACU400, replacing any ST6xxx, ST7XXX, ST8xxx, ST70, or ST70+ autopilot control head with a p70/p70S/p70R/p70RS autopilot control head. The rudder reference unit and drive unit will interfaced to the ACU400. The fluxgate compass will be replaced by an EV-1 CCU (course computer / heading sensor / rate sensor).

Q3 - what is the corresponding unit that matches the SPX30 ? The Evolution ACU-300 ?
Q4. See the response to Q2.

Q4 - HSS/HS5 - I was thinking of just adding an HS5 and x-connecting the two switches with the adapter cable (RJ45M to RayNet M). Is it better to do that - or just go to the HS5 and use adapter cables to connect any older SeaTalkHS units to the HS5 (namely Radar and cant think of anything else on the HS network).
A5. As long as your SeaTalkhs Network Switch is in good shape, then there shoudl be no need to remove it from the system Each MFD, the Digital Radar Cable, any external sounder modules, SR150, and any compatible encoded/IP video sources may be interfaced to any one of the switches by using the appropriate cable or adapter. The HS5 RayNet Network Switch has the advantage of having sockets which are better protected from the marine environment than the SeaTalkhs Network Switch.

Q5 - Is the Axiom XL also touch screen eventhough essentially you want the RMK type of external input ?
Q6. While not necessary, it is sometimes desirable to control the MFD via keys & UniController (ex. under rough sea conditions which prevent accurate/controlled touches).

Q6 is the Axiom XL 16 just announced or is shipping now ? I see later ship dates on the larger units, but not sure if the XL 16 is shipping now.
A6. I believe that the Axiom XL 16 is now shipping. That said, I recommend that customers follow the recommendation within the FAQ found here when seeking the latest information on product availability.

Q7 - Does the AXiom XL 16 come with mounting brackets ? As in to table mount upright rather than flush mounting. My bottom helm currently has two industrial mounts that mount the screens for the GPM. I know the existing mounts wont work, but wondering if the mounts are currently available now or a future release thing.
A7. As the Axiom XL MFDs were intended for those seeking flush mounted installations, Raymarine has indicated the future availability of trunion brackets for these MFDs. That said, it would seem feasible that a custom bracket may be fabricated by a third party to permit the MFD to be secured to the bracket via the four threaded mounting points intended for the flush mounting brackets.

Q8 I have the CP370 on order (some sort of sale going on today). So i'll modularize the unit for now. But I think I should have gotten the 470 or 570 as the internal unit is equivalent to the 470. However, the transducer I have B744TL doesnt seem to be listed as a compatible transducer to the 470/570 units. . And the 370 appears to be a working replacement to the current DSM300.
A8. The CP370 is indeed the functional replacement for a DSM300 which had been interfaced to a legacy MFD via Ethernet communications. Unlike the 1kW socket of the Axiom Pro RVX MFDs, I do not believe that the CP470 and CP570 may be adapted to be mated to a 50kHz/ 200kHz fishfinder transducer. I will respond if I determine anything to the contrary.

Q9- i have always used navionics. I see the Axiom has Navionics and lighthouse. Is there a reason to run navionics other than familiarty if it seems RM seems to be pushing toward more LH ? I understand LH seems to cover both the OS and the actual maps. But from the map perspective - is there a larger feature set of one vs the other ?
A9. Raymarine is simply providing options to those who have preferences with respect to cost, features, and locally better accuracy of some charts over others. Navionics charts, particularly Navionics Platinum Plus charts, will provide customers with the greatest number of cartography based features when used with MFDs running LightHouse II and LightHouse 3 software.

[anthem]

Once again thank you for the responses. .

I looked up after I sent that and I'm definite the ACU400 AP as thats for interfacing with T2 hydraulics.

Q1 - yes. Trunion mounts . thats what I was looking for. Do you know the Axiom XL trunion mounts are shipping or that they might be the same dimension as the Axion Pro 16 trunion mount (doubtful, right ?)

Q2 - instead of replacing the displays on the flybridge (maybe I'll wait until next year), can the external displays on the flybridge be driven by the outputs on the Axiom Pro/XL ? DVI output essentially ? I think the resolution is 1024x768. Would that cause a conflict with the external resolution different from the main display ? Then I could use the RMK keyboard to control on flybridge if I needed to. Main reason is mounting new displays on flybridge requires new panel board to be custom fit for the new 12" displays.. so working on getting the new system up and running before finalizing flybridge.

Hmm. Looks like I might have to wait a bit. No trubnuon kit for the axiom pro 16. There is a kit for the 9 and 12 but none for thev16. It says “coming soon” with the wrong part number associated with it - an Axxxxxxx parrbynver when it should be an Rxxxx partnunver.

I guess the question then becomes - when is the axiom pro 16 trunnion kit supposed to be ready?

When is the axiom xl trunnion supposed to be shipping ? Those two are going to be the deciding factor since I need two trunnion kits to fit these units on my bridge. Thanks.

Thank you for the other responses..

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Ed,

Q1 - yes. Trunion mounts . thats what I was looking for. Do you know the Axiom XL trunion mounts are shipping or that they might be the same dimension as the Axion Pro 16 trunion mount (doubtful, right ?)
A1 - Raymarine is not shipping Axiom XL MFDs with trunion mounts, is not presently listing them as an accessory, Raymarine has announced no plans to introduce trunion mounts for Axiom XL MFDs, and if I were to venture a guess, the expected number of requests for such may be too few to build a business case for having Raymarine produce them. If seeking Raymarine trunion mounted MFDs running LightHouse 3 software and featuring trunion mounts produced by Raymarine, then Axiom or Axiom Pro MFDs would be recommended.

Q2 - instead of replacing the displays on the flybridge (maybe I'll wait until next year), can the external displays on the flybridge be driven by the outputs on the Axiom Pro/XL ? DVI output essentially ? I think the resolution is 1024x768. Would that cause a conflict with the external resolution different from the main display ? Then I could use the RMK keyboard to control on flybridge if I needed to. Main reason is mounting new displays on flybridge requires new panel board to be custom fit for the new 12" displays.. so working on getting the new system up and running before finalizing flybridge.
A2. The G-Series monitors are not suited for this application. The monitors would need to support 720P.

Q3. Hmm. Looks like I might have to wait a bit. No trubnuon kit for the axiom pro 16. There is a kit for the 9 and 12 but none for thev16. It says “coming soon” with the wrong part number associated with it - an Axxxxxxx parrbynver when it should be an Rxxxx partnunver.
A3. A ball mount plate (part #A80537) is available for the Axiom Pro 16 MFDs, permitting there use with a RAM mount.

[anthem]

Q1 - is the bracket for the Axiom Pro 16 and Axiom XL 16 the same for the ball mount ? In that case, I dont have to wait for a trunnion and can go either way.

Q2 - Any documentation on the Ram ball mount ? I dont see any anywhere. Just the existence of an A805347 ball mount for the Axiom Pro 16. trying to see what kind of Ram ball mount options I have.

Thanks
Ed

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Ed,

Q1. s the bracket for the Axiom Pro 16 and Axiom XL 16 the same for the ball mount ? In that case, I dont have to wait for a trunnion and can go either way.
A1. As indicated, a ball mount plate (part #A80537) is available for the Axiom Pro 16 MFDs, permitting its use with a RAM mount. The Raymarine mount features pre-drilled holes to accommodate the RAM mount. The Axiom Pro 16 Ball Mount Plate is not designed for use with an Axiom XL 16 MFD. I would recommend contacting RAM Mounts for their corresponding parts to connect the MFD to the mount.

Q2. Any documentation on the Ram ball mount ? I dont see any anywhere. Just the existence of an A805347 ball mount for the Axiom Pro 16. trying to see what kind of Ram ball mount options I have.
A2. The drawing for the A80537 Axiom 16 Ball Mount Plate may be found here.

[anthem]

Perfect. Diagram is exactly what I need. Its a Ram 2.25" ball (they have a smaller ball as well) and that narrows down the selections from Ram. . .

I would love to see the back of an Axion 16 XL just to see if the holes are there for the same bracket. . It would make a lot of sense to have the same bracket fit the similar sizes of the two MFD;s. . although I know the 16 XL is about an inch narrower than the Pro.. .

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Ed,

The case of the Axiom XL 16 MFD is completely different from that of the Axiom Pro 16 MFD, prohibiting the Axiom Pro 16 ball mount plate from being used with the Axiom XL MFDs. If you are seriously considering use of the Axiom XL 16, then I would recommend contacting a metal fabricator to produce a similar ball mount plate for the Axiom XL 16 MFD.