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[CA] [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
08-09-16, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 08-22-18 02:52 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #1
[CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Hello,
I am prepared to modernize the electronics on my 2002 Sea Ray 460DA once again. I'm sure the company likes hearing that and I have been pleased overall with the Raymarine performance.
I purchased the boat used in 2007 and removed all Raymarine OEM electronics except Tridata, GPS antenna, and ST7001+ autopilot. I added two screens, E120 and E80 with DSM 300, Ray 218, SR 100 and a new HD Digital 4kw 48" open array. The recent crash of my systems due to the Sirius XM weather conflict is now fixed with a software update but it prompted me to look at all the recent advances in navigation electronics including WiFi and trip planning remotely. Here are my questions for an optimum configuration for the 460, used exclusively in the Great Lakes.
1) Because the MFD are less deep, I can now fit two 12" screens. I spoke with Ron yesterday at HQ and he suggested both the eS127 and eS128. He said I can have two different sonar images running simultaneously that will not interfere. What transducers do you recommend? I have the DSM transducer there presently along with a transom mount secondary for the Tridata.
2) I really depend on my SR 100 and apparently I can retain that. Is a bridge connector required?
3) Do I need a new bus now? I believe I have the Hsb2 and would need SeaTalk NG?
4) I want to get the new Evolution autopilot. Although my type 1 pump still functions, it's getting old. I plan to upgrade to a type 2. So do I assume that I should be opting for a EV 400 power boat configuration pack?
5) The heart of this conversion is that my HD Digital radar should be compatible, correct? Otherwise I have to re-think this.
6) Later I will assess adding a WiFi antenna, modern Tridata or other but wish NOT to cut holes in the dash. (The autopilot swap will require a bit of minor cosmetic surgery on the dash.)
Any help is appreciated in confirming my potential order. I just do not wish to make any expensive mistakes due to poor planning. Thanks.
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08-10-16, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-19 12:23 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #2
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Welcome to the Raymarine Forum James,

Q1) Because the MFD are less deep, I can now fit two 12" screens. I spoke with Ron yesterday at HQ and he suggested both the eS127 and eS128. He said I can have two different sonar images running simultaneously that will not interfere. What transducers do you recommend? I have the DSM transducer there presently along with a transom mount secondary for the Tridata.
A1) The currently installed DSM300 (along with the transducer) may be interfaced to the Ethernet Network to which the eS127, eS128, HD Digital Radar, and SR100 will each interfaced. As a SeaTalkhs Network Switch is presently installed onboard, the new MFD's will simply be adapted to be mated to the currently installed SeaTalkhs Cables which are presently connected to the E80 and E120.

Q2) I really depend on my SR 100 and apparently I can retain that. Is a bridge connector required?
A2) The SR100 can be retained for use with the eS-Series MFDs as it has been onboard my own boat. As the SR100 is interfaced to a SeaTalkhs Network Switch, not changes need be made to the installation of the SR100.

Q3) Do I need a new bus now? I believe I have the Hsb2 and would need SeaTalk NG?
A3) As the present system includes ST60 Tridata and the a/c/e/eS-Series MFDs do not support SeaTalk communications protocol, it will be necessary to install a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to support communications between the new an old system. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject. Should the ST60 Tridata be replaced with an i50 Tridata, then it would simply be interfaced as a spur to a powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng backbone to which the Data Master eS-Series MFD and Evolution autopilot components have each also been interfaced as a spur to.

Q4) I want to get the new Evolution autopilot. Although my type 1 pump still functions, it's getting old. I plan to upgrade to a type 2. So do I assume that I should be opting for a EV 400 power boat configuration pack?
A4) Within hydraulically steered vessels, the pump is sized to the cubic capacity of the steering ram. Moving up to a Type 2 pump would only be recommended if the cubic capacity of the steering ram fall within the specifications of the pump. The cubic capacity of the steering ram is generally stamped onto the ram or to a plate affixed to the ram.

Q5) The heart of this conversion is that my HD Digital radar should be compatible, correct? Otherwise I have to re-think this.
A5) HD Digital Radomes and HD Digital Open Array Pedestals are both compatible with the a/c/e/eS/gS-Series MFDs.

Q6) Later I will assess adding a WiFi antenna, modern Tridata or other but wish NOT to cut holes in the dash. (The autopilot swap will require a bit of minor cosmetic surgery on the dash.)
A6) The i50 Tridata is designed to fit directly in place of a ST60 Tridata.
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08-21-18, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 08-21-18 02:40 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #3
RE: Questions on a New Configuration
I have not yet made the proposed changes since my old system with two Classic E screens continues to function well. I hope to finally do these changes over the winter while in storage. The eS displays appear well suited for my purposes but they appear to have a limited future so my questions will then pertain to Axiom, Axiom Pro, etc.
1) Will Axiom support my present Digital 48" open array radar RA1048D?
2) Is Sirius XM weather now supported with Axiom Lighthouse 3? (I realize that my SR-100 will need to be replaced but I like the Sirius XM product.)
3) Can/ or should the DSM-300 be integrated into the Axiom displays? It has been the single problem area of my ten year old system and I don't mind replacing it.
4) What is the future for the eS series?
Thank you for your input.
James
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08-21-18, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-22-18 02:54 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #4
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
James,

Q1) Will Axiom support my present Digital 48" open array radar RA1048D?
A1) Raymarine did not produce a RA1048D. However, Raymarine has produced a RA1048HD and a RA1048SHD. Both of the latter, as well as any currently and previously manufactured Raymarine radar transducers featuring an Ethernet communications interface is and will continue to be compatible with Axiom/Axiom Pro/Axiom XL MFDs.

Q2) Is Sirius XM weather now supported with Axiom Lighthouse 3? (I realize that my SR-100 will need to be replaced but I like the Sirius XM product.)
A2) Yes. A SR150 SiriusXM Satellite Weather / Radio Receiver is required.

Q3) Can/ or should the DSM-300 be integrated into the Axiom displays? It has been the single problem area of my ten year old system and I don't mind replacing it.
A3) The DSM300 and DSM30 are not supported by LightHouse 3 software. Owners of these devices are typically recommended to replace a DSM30 or DSM300 with a CP370.

Q4) What is the future for the eS series?
A4) Due to processing limitations of the eS/gS Series MFDs there will come a point at which LightHouse software development for eS/gS Series MFDs will cease, while LightHouse software development for the Axiom/Axiom Pro/Axiom XL MFDs will continue. At that point, those seeking to maintain their Axiom/Axiom Pro/Axiom XL MFDs with the latest software may need to either replace their eS/gS Series MFDs with Axiom/Axiom Pro/Axiom XL MFDs or disconnect their eS/gS Series MFDs from the system's Ethernet network (thereby reducing data/resources sharing between the eS/gS-Series MFDs and the Axiom/Axiom Pro/Axiom XL MFDs.
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08-22-18, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 08-22-18 02:54 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #5
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Chuck,
Thank you as always for your excellent reply.
My radar is in fact HD so I should be fine with the Axiom product line. I plan to change the SR-100 to SR-150 if that's what is recommended, and also my ST-7001+ to the Evolution autopilot. I will change the sounder as per recommendation when I choose the package.
If I have any other questions, I will post again.
James
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10-14-19, 12:51 PM (This post was last modified: 10-14-19 01:28 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #6
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Hello,
I am reviving a thread from a year ago since I was able to get another year out of my 12 year old Classic E system. It now appears that I am ready to move forward (because of conflicts between the old screens and peripheral communications) with Axiom screens. eS is now retired. I am able to fit two stacked 12" screens and have the following questions as I decide on my configuration:
1) After initially favoring two Axiom screens, I now believe that I should incorporate at least one Axiom Pro screen. Any guidance on whether to choose the Pro 12S vs Pro 12RVX? Is the Pro version a more complete or robust platform than Axiom? Or do I incorporate the RVX into the Axiom screen only and get a Pro screen, no Realvision?
2) Currently I have a DSM 300 system networked to a SeatalkHs powered network switch. I am not sure whether to use this in the new system or not. The transducer is a P319 but I also have a NMEA 0183 Tridata ST60 fed from a transom mounted Speed/temp/transducer as a back up since the DSM300 is occasionally erratic. I would like to incorporate RealVision in the new system with the RV-200 transducer. Any advice here? No fishing, just cruising but sometimes near rocky shores.
3) I have an old ST7001+ autopilot which works fine and is not integrated with the present system. My plan is to replace it with an Evolution A/P eventually. Can this be left as a stand-alone unit with the Axiom screens for now until replaced next year?
4) The GPS satellite acquisition is sometimes very slow (several minutes) with the old RayStar 125 antenna. Should I replace it with an external antenna now (looking at the AR200 for future augmented reality)? The Sea Ray has a hardtop but a BadElf GPS back-up has no issue acquiring satellites quickly under the hardtop.
5) Could I keep one or both my analogue cameras on-board with this set-up?
6) Most important concern: Can I keep the present 4kw open array radar? The original bill from 2008 says "RA1048D" and probably should read "RA1048HD". The words "HD Digital" are on the open array antenna and it is controlled through a VCM100. (I have the serial numbers.)

I will have some other questions later but my plan is to keep some of the NMEA 0183 (autopilot, Tridata, Ray218 VHF) components for now. I am aware that I have to upgrade my SR-100 to the SR-200 as well.

Thank you for your help.
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10-14-19, 03:07 PM
Post: #7
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
James,

Q1) After initially favoring two Axiom screens, I now believe that I should incorporate at least one Axiom Pro screen. Any guidance on whether to choose the Pro 12S vs Pro 12RVX? Is the Pro version a more complete or robust platform than Axiom? Or do I incorporate the RVX into the Axiom screen only and get a Pro screen, no Realvision?
A1. Unless seeking to RealVision, SideVision, DownVision, or conical low power / high frequency CHIRP sonar imaging, there would be no need for fishfinder processing circuitry within either MFD and even then, I typically favor having sonar circuitry within an external sounder module. If seeking the latter sonar imaging then it would be recommended that an Axiom MFD w/o internal sonar circuitry be purchased along with an Axiom Pro S MFD. A RVX1000 RealVision Sonar Module may then be networked to the MFDs. Should the currently installed P319 be operational and should it have been designed to be mated directly to the DSM (i.e. w/o adaptation) then this transducer and/or a pair of RealVision Transducers may be interfaced to the RVX1000. Should RealVision, SideVision, DownVision, or conical low power / high frequency CHIRP sonar imaging not be desired, then the same MFD recommendations would apply, but a CP370 Sounder Module would be recommended.

Q2) Currently I have a DSM 300 system networked to a SeatalkHs powered network switch. I am not sure whether to use this in the new system or not. The transducer is a P319 but I also have a NMEA 0183 Tridata ST60 fed from a transom mounted Speed/temp/transducer as a back up since the DSM300 is occasionally erratic. I would like to incorporate RealVision in the new system with the RV-200 transducer. Any advice here? No fishing, just cruising but sometimes near rocky shores.
A2. I would recommend retaining the SeaTalkhs Network Switch. The MFDs, radar transducer, SR150, and the aforementioned RVX1000 RealVision Sonar Module may then be all be networked via the switch. Should the currently installed P319 be operational and should it have been designed to be mated directly to the DSM (i.e. w/o adaptation) then this transducer and/or a pair of RealVision Transducers may be interfaced to the RVX1000. This will satisfy the RealVision requirement and the P319 should provide good bottom tracking at planing speeds.

Q3) I have an old ST7001+ autopilot which works fine and is not integrated with the present system. My plan is to replace it with an Evolution A/P eventually. Can this be left as a stand-alone unit with the Axiom screens for now until replaced next year?
A3. Yes. However, depending upon the model of autopilot course computer which the ST7001+ has been interfaced to, it may indeed be possible to interface it to the system to support use of the autopilot's Track mode feature.

Q4) The GPS satellite acquisition is sometimes very slow (several minutes) with the old RayStar 125 antenna. Should I replace it with an external antenna now (looking at the AR200 for future augmented reality)? The Sea Ray has a hardtop but a BadElf GPS back-up has no issue acquiring satellites quickly under the hardtop.
A4) Should the MFDs not be installed in a location affording them an unobstructed view of the skies overhead, then an external GPS would indeed be required and it would be recommended that it be installed atop the hard top, presumably where the RS125 has been installed. I too would recommend considering the AR200 for the reasons which you have referenced.

Q5) Could I keep one or both my analogue cameras on-board with this set-up?
A5) Yes. One of the cameras may be directly mated to the Axiom Pro MFD's Power/NMEA 0183/Video Input Cable. The second may be interfaced to a video encoders (ex. Axis M7011). I have used the latter onboard my own boat and find them to work quite well.

Q6) Most important concern: Can I keep the present 4kw open array radar? The original bill from 2008 says "RA1048D" and probably should read "RA1048HD". The words "HD Digital" are on the open array antenna and it is controlled through a VCM100. (I have the serial numbers.)
A6. Yes. The currently installed open array may be retained for use with the Axiom system.
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10-15-19, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-16-19 03:29 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #8
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Thank you very much for your reply. You are helping me to sort through this. The nice thing about the Axiom and Axiom Pro system is that it can be built in pieces if I understand you, so the cost can be spread out over a couple of winter projects (Great Lakes). We can add more peripherals in the future. This year I will install the MFD's, retain or change transducers, and install dedicated power for the electronics as a minimum. Later I can address upgrading the autopilot among other peripherals.

I have a few new questions for you, now that we know I can use the radar and analogue cameras:

1) I will get an Axiom 12 (E70368) and will pair it with an Axiom Pro, either the Pro S or the Pro RVX. You mention that your preference is to add the RVX1000 sounder black box so you would choose the Pro S? The RVX1000 adds to the cost so can I delay the RVX1000 until later and put a transducer directly connected to the MFD, or do you advise it be done right away? Does the RVX1000 give an advantage to the Pro S unit over the Pro RVX unit?

2) I will check my connection of the P319 transducer but it is probably a seven pin so I would need an adapter depending whether I put it directly into the MFD or the RVX1000. (I am ruling out the CP370 since I may eventually want the 3D sonar coverage.) Is there a better CHIRP transducer option like the CPT-S transducer for example?

3) How do I determine whether I need an offset transducer or a pair of Realvision transducers? I suppose I have to measure the deadrise at the point in the hull where the transducers live?

4) I am guessing that my DSM300 is no longer practical and I should get rid of it, possibly keeping the transducer only?

5) Is my SR100 of any use going forward (don't have the SR150)? I plan to upgrade to the SR200 but will prioritize that only if the SR100 cannot be intergrated into the new system.

Thanks for your answers Chuck. I will find out which autopilot course computer I have and whether it can be used to support the Track mode.

James
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10-16-19, 04:06 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-19 12:24 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #9
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
James,

Q1a) I will get an Axiom 12 (E70368) and will pair it with an Axiom Pro, either the Pro S or the Pro RVX. You mention that your preference is to add the RVX1000 sounder black box so you would choose the Pro S?
A1a) Correct

Q1b) The RVX1000 adds to the cost so can I delay the RVX1000 until later and put a transducer directly connected to the MFD, or do you advise it be done right away?
A2b) The RVX1000 need not be purchased until the RV transducer(s) is installed. In the interim, the DSM300 (if operational) may be retained to supply the system with traditional 50kHz/200kHz fishfinder sonar features.

Q1c) Does the RVX1000 give an advantage to the Pro S unit over the Pro RVX unit?
A1c) Yes. Sonar signal can be degraded by electrical noise such as that from closely located circuits not associated with sonar processing. By moving the fishfinder circuitry to a dedicated black box (i.e away from electrical circuitry which is responsible for the MFD's other features), the sonar performance may be increased.

Q2a) I will check my connection of the P319 transducer but it is probably a seven pin so I would need an adapter depending whether I put it directly into the MFD or the RVX1000. (I am ruling out the CP370 since I may eventually want the 3D sonar coverage.)
A2a) I suspect that your going to find that P319 is directly connected to the DSM and as such may later be adapted for use with the RVX1000. As indicated above, it may be used with the DSM300 in the interim.

A2a) Is there a better CHIRP transducer option like the CPT-S transducer for example?
A2b) The P319 will typically provide the best bottom tracking while on plane and as such it is recommended that it be retained.

Q3a) How do I determine whether I need an offset transducer or a pair of Realvision transducers?
A3a) It would be necessary to inspect the hull to determine whether the keel features a flat, direct downward facing surface in the desired installation location which may accommodate the 0 degree RV thru-hull. Hull such as your will typically require a RV thru-hull tilted element pair. The model of thru-hull pair would be based upon the vessel's deadrise in the installation location.

Q3b) I suppose I have to measure the deadrise at the point in the hull where the transducers live?
A3b) Correct.

Q4) I am guessing that my DSM300 is no longer practical and I should get rid of it, possibly keeping the transducer only?
A4) See the response to Q2.

Q5) Is my SR100 of any use going forward (don't have the SR150)? I plan to upgrade to the SR200 but will prioritize that only if the SR100 cannot be intergrated into the new system.
A5. Negative. Systems running LH3 software are exclusively compatible with the SR150 and the SR200 (replaced the SR150). As Raymarine no longer produces SiriusXM Satellite Weather Receivers which are compatible with MFDs running LHII software and the models of MFDs which preceded them, those upgrading to MFDs running LH3 software are advise to privately sell (ex. ebay, Craigs List, etc.) their SR100 or SR6, as there is a fair demand for these products by those desiring to add SiriusXM Satellite Weather/Radio capabilities to their legacy Raymarine systems.
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10-17-19, 10:15 AM (This post was last modified: 10-17-19 12:05 PM by Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #10
RE: [CA11] Questions on a New Configuration
Chuck,
Thank you once again.
Two final questions:
1) Now with having to change to the SR200 weather module (LH3 compatibility) and I'm probably now going with the RVX1000 sonar control as well, plus connecting two Axiom/Axiom Pro screens, how would I adapt all this? One option is to use the existing SeaTalk Hs switch but that would require up to four adapters (A62360). Another option is to add an HS5 switch powered off the old SeaTalk Hs switch keeping only the radar on the old one. The last option would be to discard the old switch entirely and just go with an HS5 switch with one adapter to the radar. So three options. Which would be best? I'm thinking the last one because the old RJ45 connections are getting a bit temperamental at this point.
2) Would I need further space on the HS5 for anything in the future and can a second switch be powered off the first? Just looking down the road.
James
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