[CA] E-80 MFD Time issues

[Charles]

hello! I have an E-80 MFD. My 125 GPS antenna failed and I had to replace it with a 130. Also needed he controller and new cable to link to older Seatalk communication network. The problem of no position, wind, and current data was solved but the time on the MFD alternates between local and GMT every few seconds. Has anyone had this issue? And, what did you do to solve it?

Thank You
Charles

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Charles,

Please click here to view a FAQ addressing how a Raystar 130/150 GPS Sensor should be interfaced to an E-Series Classic MFD. If interfaced in the manner specified within the referenced FAQ, then it is recommended that you verify that the Raystar 125 GPS Sensor has been completely disconnected from the system. If so, then please attach a system diagram to this thread. The diagram should identify the make/model of each of the marine electronics product within the system and how they have been interfaced to one another ... we have a concern that a data loop may have been created through the method in which the electronics within this system have been interfaced.

[Charles]

Thanks Chuck for your prompt attention. In a nut shell my original 125 antenna failed. I called tech support and found that the 125 was no longer available and I needed a new version 130 AND a converter and cable to interface with the classic E-80 Seatalk. But, you already know that! Anyway, it came with instructions and I thought I installed it correctly. My antenna is fixed to the deck about 3ft away from the original terminal box (E-80). The instructions for connecting the new antenna was to remove and replace the old connector box, between the new antenna and the outbound cable...which I assume transits to the MFD. I'm attaching a picture of the new converter box. I immediately solve the issue of no position fix, wind and current information, but my time on the MFD switches rapidly between local and GMT. My software was updated several years ago to the new version. I read on the forum that it is suggested that you do a factory reset after upgrading the software....which I did not do, and I guess that may be my issue but frankly I'm not sure. The wiring diagram that you posted seems to indicate that all cables going to each instrument on the system must be replaced, but I purchased exactly what tech support required to fix the issue.
I talked to a technician at the Seattle boat show and he told me that the converter box may need a software upgrade as well and I was hopeful that may solve the problem but it did not, however, the time now switches less often, so maybe we are getting closer.

Thanks Again! Charles

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Charles,

Per our discussion, please send your SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to me to have its software updated. Please additionally determine which the model of autopilot course computer is presently installed onbooard the vessel.

Should you determine that the model of autopilot course computer is a S1, S1G, S2, S2G, S3, or S3G, then it would be recommended that the MFD be disconnected from the SeaTalk bus (i.e. disconnect the SeaTalk/Alarm Cable from the MFD's SeaTalk/Alarm port) and then connect the MFD's SeaTalk2/NMEA 2000 port to the remaining spur socket of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter using the adapter cable specified within the previously referenced FAQ. While not considered a best practice, backpowering the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter from the SeaTalk bus will work for the very small SeaTalkng backbone created for you system.

Should you determine that the model of autopilot course computer is a SPX5, SPX10, or SPX 30, then it would likewise be recommended that the MFD be disconnected from the SeaTalk bus (i.e. disconnect the SeaTalk/Alarm Cable from the MFD's SeaTalk/Alarm port) and then connect the MFD's SeaTalk2/NMEA 2000 port to the remaining spur socket of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter using the adapter cable specified within the previously referenced FAQ.

The information in the following would only be recommended for a vessel which featured a SPX autopilot and where further equipment having a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 communications interface was expected to be added. While it would be permissible to stop at this point, it would be considered a best practice, to add three additionally spur sockets to the backbone to permit the ST70 Autopilot Control Head, SPX autopilot course computer, and a SeaTalkng Power Cable (connected to a dedicated switched 12VDC power circuit to be) to each be interfaced as spurs to the SeaTalkng backbone. Finally, the software within the ST70 Autopilot Control Head and SPX autopilot course computer will be updated via the E-Series Classic MFD. Should the SPX autopilot course computer feature a SeaTalkng power switch, it should be configured to the OFF position. The SeaTalk bus will be powered from the SeaTalkng backbone via the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter. Should the SPX autopilot feature a ST6xxx, ST7xxx, or ST8xxx autopilot control head instead of a ST70 Autopilot Control Head, then it would be recommended that it be disconnected from the SeaTalk bus to which the ST60 instrument are connected and and instead that it be connected directly to the SeaTalk port of the SPX autopilot course computer.

Should the MFD have been updated with the final E-Series Classic MFD software update (v5.69) and the Raystar 130 GPS Sensor have been interfaced to the MFD per the FAQ referenced above and should the problem persist, then the source of the problem would be fault isolated by testing the performance again after:
- unplugging the SeaTalk/Alarm Cable and NMEA 0183 from the MFD
- unplugging all devices from the powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng backbone except for the MFD and the GPS sensor

Should the problem persist when so configured, then it would be recommended that the GPS sensor be sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced. Should the problem abate, then it would be recommended that devices be plugged back into the system one by on until the problem reoccurs, thereby identifying the problematic component and/or incorrect method of interfacing the products. Should you need further assistance, then please attach a system diagram of the vessel's marine electronics system identifying each component and how it has been interfaced to the system. Alternatively, the assistance of a Certified Raymarine Installer may be obtained to troubleshoot and correct this issue.

[Charles]

Good Morning Chuck,

I had a chance to be on my boat over the weekend and I checked on the installed equipment. A list is attached. I am attaching a drawing of the before and after installation of the 130 GPS and the Seatalk NG converter.

Basically I followed the enclosed directions and removed the smaller originally installed connecting block, and replaced it with the Searalk NG Converter. The wiring harness for the navionics was installed at the factory and it is extremely difficult to determine exactly where some of the wire terminate...thus the ??? on the cables leaving the threeway connector (original) and the returning cable from the autopilot. I suspect that one of the cables attached to the old threeway connector goes to the MFD and the other to the instuments at the starboard helm, but its impossible to tell which one. With the system on I removed the cables from #1 and #2 positions on the threeway connecting block one by one, and got a warning on the MFD that there was no heading information. I pulled the MFD out of the console enough to see the cables attached to the back, but none are labeled. If you could direct me to a diagram of the back of the MFD I would be appreciative.

Now that I have determined that I have an S3 autopilot and the converter appears to have the correct software, and the MFD has the latest software upgrade....I assume from your last post that you feel that the cable from the MFD needs to be replaced. As mentioned above, I assume with your assistance I can determine where the cable emits from the MFD, but I can only assume at this point where it connects to the backbone. Is it correct to assume that it needs to be attached to the vacant white post of the new Seatalk coverter? Once removed from the back of the MFD, and with assistance I can probably determine where it ends, but if the connecting ends are too large to be pulled from the raceway it will be difficult and we will need to re-route the cable. Can this cable be spliced if needed?

Lastly, your last post indicated that that after upgrading the MFD software to the new version it was recommended that a factory reset be performed. I was reluctant to do that because I didn't want to loose all my settings (depth offset, heading settings, etc.) and none of that was addressed. Do you feel that this could be my problem with the time issue??

Thank you again for your assistance.

Charles Sanchez
509 998 7131c

[Charles]

Charles,

Attached is diagram of the network. I was able to get to a scanner with a much better depiction of the way the system is configured. I apologize again for the bad attempt at information.

I have re-read your comments and now that I understand the equipment involved I think I get it. The overriding issue I believe now I understand...and that is the cable coming out of the new MFD Port 2 is very short and goes to a Tee or another connector box....and then a new backbone cable travels to the converter (white) connection.

If you would like to look at my scan, the solid lines are known connections. The dotted lines I am just assuming where they go, but the cable from the autopilot I assume is one of the ones that terminates at the three-way (D244) connector. Also, I assume that the other cable from this connector is where the MFD comm cable terminates.

So, If I understand your instructions, in order for the MFD to communicate with the SeaTalk 1 system the new communication link must (1) originate from the Seatalk 2 port, and the old cable removed, (2) an A06061 "pigtail" is installed which will terminate at a Tee or new connector which serves to link it to a backbone cable, And (3)Then a new backbone cable runs to the converter.

This makes sense. The confusion on my end was that after the original failure of the GPS antenna support guided me on the purchase of the antenna and a kit which contained the converter and one short cable that linked instruments and the GPS to the converter. I didn't get the whole picture and the issue was made a lot more difficult because our boat is 400 mi away and we can't exactly drive down to the marina and look.

If you could take a look at the diagram and see if I'm now on the right track I would be appreciative. I also have a few additional questions:

1. I will do the factory reset as you recommended, but was it required for the update to be effective? This could be the problem as well.

2. Would this issue also cause problems with speed, wind, current data as well? We have only used the boat a couple of times but suspect other inputs are affected.

3. I am still not sure where the original Seatalk one cable coming out of the MFD terminates, but it doesn't really matter because I can re-route the new cables anyway I can. Am I correct in assuming I only need the one converter shown? And, its not clear to me if one or both of the blue terminal caps stay in place...or just one???

I will call you in the morning and maybe we can discuss.

Thank you,

T sanchez

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Charles,

Per our phone conversation,
- you will need to disconnect the MFD from the SeaTalk bus ... simply unplug its SeaTalk/Alarm Cable
- you will need to connect the MFD's SeaTalk/NMEA 2000 port to the SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone via the A06061 Cable
- you will need to power the SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 backbone using the supplied SeaTalkng Power Cable (red w/black stripe)
- you will need to disconnect the red lead(s) of the SeaTalk cables which are presently connected to the red SeaTalk terminal(s) of the autopilot course computer.

Reference Materials:
SeaTalkng Reference Manual: https://raymarine.app.box.com/s/2ulwt6ye...3388950831
SeaTalkng Networking Components web page (also within the aforementioned SeaTalkng Reference Manual): http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=5536
SeaTalkng Sample System Diagram: http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=400

[Charles]

Hello Chuck,

Thank you for your ongoing support with this issue. I accomplished everything on the list and with the new converter and backbone everything appears to work. There is one issue that I do not understand...that is how the backbone is powered. In one of your instructions you indicated that the red (power) leads at the autopilot computer should be disconnected and, using the power cable supplied in the converter kit, a new switched power connection made. When I disconnected those SeaTalk power wires at the course computer I noticed that everything was still powered! The light on the converter still showed a signal as did the light on the GPS antenna. The autopilot appears to still work as well...but I have not made a functional check of the autopilot under power. I checked all the other instruments and they appear to all be working. I can only assume that the backbone is powered through the MFD??? Perhaps I misunderstood your instructions. I thought the new power cable needed to be installed and connected to the remaining (white) connection of the converter. Lacking an actual electrical schematic it is not possible to determine how the new backbone is powered...but it clearly has power. One last question. You mentioned upgrading the autopilot course computer. Is it correct to assume that the upgrade to the computer is completed with the v5.69 software upgrade to the E-80 series MFD that I already accomplished, or is there an additional upgrade to the computer?

Thank you!

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Charles,

Q1. When I disconnected those SeaTalk power wires at the course computer I noticed that everything was still powered! The light on the converter still showed a signal as did the light on the GPS antenna.
A1. Please verify that the SeaTalk/Alarm Cable was unplugged from the MFD. If so, then the SeaTalk bus is being powered from another point within the system that was not shown within your system diagram. If you inspect the SeaTalk bus, you may find that a SeaTalk Auxiliary Junction Box was installed to interface the Raystar 125 GPS Sensor to the system and to supply power to the SeaTalk bus. Disconnecting this Junction Box from the system (or disconnecting its power cable) would then eliminate this device as a possible source.



Q2. I thought the new power cable needed to be installed and connected to the remaining (white) connection of the converter. Lacking an actual electrical schematic it is not possible to determine how the new backbone is powered...but it clearly has power.
A2. This is indeed what had been recommended ... see the response to Q1 regarding the possible source for power to the SeaTalk bus within your system.

Q3. You mentioned upgrading the autopilot course computer. Is it correct to assume that the upgrade to the computer is completed with the v5.69 software upgrade to the E-80 series MFD that I already accomplished, or is there an additional upgrade to the computer?
A3. Should the system feature an SPX autopilot course computer then it would be necessary to update its software as well. While this may be accomplished via the MFD, it is not achieved as part of updating the MFD's software. Please click here to view the SPX autopilots software update web page.

[Charles]

Thanks Charles,

Yes the SeaTalk alarm cable is disconnected as you directed. You are obviously correct as the backbone is being powered somewhere else. The New GPS receiver is now powered through the converter and there was never a junction box. A network switch was installed when the boat was commissioned, supposedly to extend the SeaTalk system ...specifically for a SIRIUS receiver. After your message I now suspect that may be the problem, although it has never been used and it has its own switched power. However, I will check that out. Is it correct to assume that the only power the backbone should have is to the converter? It appears that the original system had several sources, apparently each major component supplied power. I'm wondering why any source would not be sufficient?

Also I have an S3 autopilot computer, so that appears not to be an issue.