[CA] [CA11] A127 Needing Transducer Options

[[email protected]]

I am more than half way thru converting an old Raytheon system to Raymarine. I have an A127 connected to new radio (Ray60) and new Chirp radar. Autopilot is on its way for spring install.

I also have an old depth and an old speed sensor, connected to old Raytheon ST60 TriData. I would like to understand my options for i) interconnecting the Raytheon/Seatalk depth and speed sensors to the the SeatalkNG networks, or ii) replacing likely the old speed sensor and TriData display with SeatalkNG components.

i) Is it possible to interconnect the Seatalk and SeatalkNG networks so that the depth will display on the A127?

ii) If replacing say the old speed sensor, what Transducer would be recommended? I would hope to 'pop' out the old speed sensor, (thru hull looks to be 2" in diameter with low slope of the hull less than 15 degrees).

The boat is a 40" sedan bridge, fiberglass.

The existing speed sensor is a 'waterwheet' type, and I am happy to just get speed from the GPS sensor.

From a transducer standpoint, I am looking mainly at depth sensing, although temperature would be a great addition. Only do a bare minimum of fishing at depths rarely exceeding 50'.

Thanks for your response.

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Dave,

Q1) Is it possible to interconnect the Seatalk and SeatalkNG networks so that the depth will display on the A127?
A1) ST60 instruments may be adapted for use with an a-Series MFD. An E22158 SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Adapter would be used for this purpose. The a-Series MFD would then be able to repeat numerical data from the ST60 instruments. However, the a-Series MFDs fishfinder features cannot be supported by an instrument depth transducer. Should fishfinder features be desired on the a-Series MFD, then it would need to be interfaced to a compatible fishfinder transducer.

Q2) If replacing say the old speed sensor, what Transducer would be recommended? I would hope to 'pop' out the old speed sensor, (thru hull looks to be 2" in diameter with low slope of the hull less than 15 degrees).
A2) If the old speed transducer is operational, then there should be no need to replace it. If replacing an instrument speed/temp transducer, then an E25025 ST800 / P120 (Plastic) Speed/Temp Transducer or M78716 ST800 / P120 (Bronze) Speed/Temp Transducer would be recommended.

Q3) The existing speed sensor is a 'waterwheet' type, and I am happy to just get speed from the GPS sensor.
A3) Then you need simply configure the MFD's Databar, Data application cell, or Databox to display the SOG (Speed Over Ground) data item.

[[email protected]]

Chuck, just to be sure, the link that supplied for Q1) points to C97/C127 displays. Those transducers all would work on the A-series displays?

thanks,

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

The ax7, cx7, e7D, and eSx7 MFDs (where x is the screen size) are each compatible with the same set of fishfinder transducers.

[[email protected]]

Chuck back again on this topic, and feel that I may have gotten off track in my messaging earlier.

I think in summary, I am hoping to implement the digital sonar capability of the a127, and to upgrade the existing/old TriData. Currently all I have is depth from the old TriData. To have dual sources of depth indication for me seems to make sense.

So one of the 'Digital Clearpulse Transducers', with a direct connection to the a127 would give me the digital sonar and second depth measurement indication I would think. For example the bronze B60 p/n E66088 would allow this (depth/temperature). And digital sonar would provide some degree of bottom contour and fish finding capability, probably less than the Chirp units. 1. Can you confirm the above? 2. And it seems that all of the transducers have the same 600w rating and degrees of view. 3. Do they all of the 600W units provide about the same quality of view of bottom contours?

Back to the existing TriData that I want to swap out for a current TriData i60 or just Depth i50 Instrument. I checked out the wiring instructions for the new units and they appear to be a drop in replacement for the old TriData. I realize that this is just a cosmetic upgrade but want to get all the instruments looking current. If I don't want to drill another [censored] in the hull, I am prepared to remove the speed sensor (water wheel) and use that [censored] for the Digital Clearpulse Above. I don't boat in waters with high currents so I would not miss the waterwheel transducer, getting just speed over ground from the GPS. Then use the existing depth transducer and connect it to a new i50 depth unit giving me my first depth source of depth indication. 4. Does this sound doable?

I hope that this all makes sense, and look forward to your response.

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

Q1. So one of the 'Digital Clearpulse Transducers', with a direct connection to the a127 would give me the digital sonar and second depth measurement indication I would think. For example the bronze B60 p/n E66088 would allow this (depth/temperature). And digital sonar would provide some degree of bottom contour and fish finding capability, probably less than the Chirp units. Can you confirm the above?
A1. This is indeed correct. However, should you find that pinging from the a127 MFD's fishfinder transducer interferes with the Tridata's ability to acquire/maintain bottom via its interfaced 200kHz transducer, then it would be recommended that the a127 MFD's fishfinder feature be configured to only ping on the 50kHz Sonar Channel

Q2. And it seems that all of the transducers have the same 600w rating and degrees of view.
A2. Fishfinder transducer cone angles vary based upon the transducer model and frequency (50kHz or 200kHz).

Q3. Do they all of the 600W units provide about the same quality of view of bottom contours?
A3. Negative. Transducer which are in direct contact with the water (thru-hull or transom mounted) will typically perform better than in-hull transducers. Transducers having great numbers of sense elements will have greater sensitivity (ex. it would be expected that an A80172 B258 or A80173 B164 will provide better performance than the other listed transducers ... even when driven at 600W).

Q4. Back to the existing TriData that I want to swap out for a current TriData i60 or just Depth i50 Instrument. I checked out the wiring instructions for the new units and they appear to be a drop in replacement for the old TriData. I realize that this is just a cosmetic upgrade but want to get all the instruments looking current. If I don't want to drill another [censored] in the hull, I am prepared to remove the speed sensor (water wheel) and use that [censored] for the Digital Clearpulse above. I don't boat in waters with high currents so I would not miss the waterwheel transducer, getting just speed over ground from the GPS. Then use the existing depth transducer and connect it to a new i50 depth unit giving me my first depth source of depth indication. Does this sound doable?
A4. Yes.

[[email protected]]

Chuck, it sure sounds like having 2 depth transducers could be problematic. I would like to explore another approach with you.

My existing depth transducer is a P533 from AirMar Technology, part number 5119, as indicated on fading label. It connects directly to an older Tri-Data. Both are about 20 years old.

1. Is the P533 able to sense depth as well as the sonar landscape below? Could it be direct connected to a new Tri-Data which is also on SeaTalkng and then able to pass thru both depth and sonar data do the A127? (Depth would be also be displayed on the new Tri-Data)

2. If the answer to Q1 is no, then, I think it might be best to replace the existing P533 with a depth/sonar/temp transducer that is direct connected to the A127. Could the A127 then 'pass thru' the depth reading value to a new Tri-Data unit on SeaTalkng? I am trying to have a more visible depth indicator to refer to, instead of` the mixed data read on the A127.

continued thanks,

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

Q1. It sure sounds like having 2 depth transducers could be problematic. I would like to explore another approach with you.
A1. While filtering within the fishfinder would likely prevent the depth instrument from interfering with the fishfinder's performance, using the 200kHz fishfinder channel frequency may interfere with the depth instrument. If this is observed, then one would simply configure MFD to use the 50kHz fishfinder channel when desiring depth data from both the fishfinder and instrument via their respective transducers.

Q2. My existing depth transducer is a P533 from AirMar Technology, part number 5119, as indicated on fading label. It connects directly to an older Tri-Data. Both are about 20 years old. Is the P533 able to sense depth as well as the sonar landscape below? Could it be direct connected to a new Tri-Data which is also on SeaTalkng and then able to pass thru both depth and sonar data do the A127? (Depth would be also be displayed on the new Tri-Data).
A2. Unfortunately, I could find no references within Airmar's Transducer Cross Reference for a P333 transducer. That said, any depth transducer which is presently interfaced and working correctly with a Tridata instrument is pinging at 200kHz. While the interfaced instrument may provide the MFD with numerical depth data, it will not support use of the MFD's Fishfinder feature (i.e no graph will be plotted).

Q2. If the answer to Q1 is no, then, I think it might be best to replace the existing P533 with a depth/sonar/temp transducer that is direct connected to the A127. Could the A127 then 'pass thru' the depth reading value to a new Tri-Data unit on SeaTalkng? I am trying to have a more visible depth indicator to refer to, instead of` the mixed data read on the A127.
A2. Indeed, should the currently installed transducer be disconnected from the Tridata instrument, should the instrument be interfaced to the MFD, should the MFD be interfaced to a compatible depth/speed/temp fishfinder transducer, and should the Tridata instrument be configured as a Repeater of Depth and Speed, then the Tridata would repeat the depth, speed, and temperature data determined by the MFD.

[[email protected]]

Thanks Chuck.

Setting the Tridata to being a 'Repeater' would mean however that I could not reconnect the old 'speed' thru water transducer, correct? Any way to get that speed data on the Tridata?

tks

Dave

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Dave,

The ST60 Tridata Instrument has individual Master / Repeater settings Depth and for Speed.