E120 Classic and Network Update to STng

[kevinvh]

Hi - I have an E120 Classic MFD and ST1 network throughout my boat (installed in 2007). I recently purchased an i70s Multifunction Display RS 130 GPS Sensor and all the components to build a STng throughout my boat.

I am having some difficulties with some of the old ST1 instruments and the ST2 Keyboard, and in particular, I cannot see any of the ST1, ST2 or STng instruments under Menu/System Diagnostics/External Interfaces/SeaTalk or SeaTalk NG. The MFD freezes when I select Menu/System Devices/External Interfaces/SeaTalk NG.

All of my devices have the most recent software upgrades installed, including the ST1-STng Converters.

Attached are three SeaTalk Wiring Diagrams that I have devised for my new SeaTalk system.
- Mat-Lau III Proposed (1) installs a STng backbone throughout the boat and uses two ST1-STng Converters to split and interface the ST1 network. The ST1 network is not connected to the MFD directly with an E120 - ST1 connector cable.
-Mat-Lau III Proposed (2) maintains the original ST1 network and connects the ST1 network to the MFD via the original E120 - ST1 connector cable. The STng instruments are connected to the MFD via a seperate STng backbone via an E120 - STng connector cable. This option provides the least disruption to my original ST1 network.
-Mat-Lau III Proposed (3) is another variation to Proposal (2).

Can you please review my network diagrams and comment on which is the best arrangement and the one that is likely to give me the least amount of grief. Will these network arrangements work OK? I would prefer to leave the existing ST1 network in tack as much as possible in order to avoid extensive rewiring.

Best regards - Kevin Hiscox

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Kevin,

I had no luck in contacting you at the number provided.

The E-Series Classic MFDs had very limited support for SeaTalkng diagnostics. Support did not include listing SeaTalkng devices and the symptom reported when commanding the MFD to list the SeaTalkng devices does not surprise me. Should a SeaTalk bus including SeaTalk device be interfaced to the MFD, then the MFD will be able to produce a list of the SeaTalk devices from the MFD's diagnostics options. However, it may be necessary to execute the command more than once as some of the devices on the SeaTalk bus may not be listed. It should be noted that the MFD will not list SeaTalk devices which have been interfaced to the system via a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter.

Within each of the diagrams provided, the AIS650 is shown as being powered/connected to the SeaTalk bus ... this is not correct. The AIS650 should be powered from another 12V source.

Within each of your diagrams, LEN loading within the SeaTalkng backbones must located within a spur socket positioned at the approximate midpoint of the backbone's LEN load.

Within each of your diagrams, it is noted that these are fairly large SeaTalk busses. It may be advisable to power the SeaTalk bus from both ends to ensure sufficient power. Should the S3 be powering the SeaTalk bus, then it would be recommended that the 12V circuit supplying power to the autopilot also supply power the the opposite end of the SeaTalk bus.

I would not recommend Proposed(1) should the SeaTalk bus be already in place ... primarily because you are currently cruising and it may require greater installation activity and risk. Instead, chose either of the other two solutions lacking the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converters.

[kevinvh]

Thanks Chuck for your valuable critique. Think I will adopt Proposed (2) with your modifications to the AIS650 power source and the power injection point to the STng backbone. I will try running the two ST1 networks with the current single point power source from the S3, and inject power to both ends of these networks if it proves to be problematic.

One more question, I plan to replace the ST2 Keyboard with a G-Series Command Centre Keyboard - are there any issues here or special setup instructions? Think I have a broken data cable in the ST2 Keyboard as it powers up and beeps to each keystroke, but no longer responds to keystrokes.

Thanks again - Kevin Hiscox

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Kevin,

You're welcome. Both the G-Series Command Center Keyboard and G-Series Mini-Keyboard are both compatible with E-Series Classic MFDs, bearing in mind that some of the functions of the G-Series Keyboards are specific to G-Series system.

[kevinvh]

Hi Ray - I installed the new ST1 - STng network in my boat with your suggested modifications. The As-built Wiring diagram is as attached and it works great.

I now realise however, that the E120 Classic has to be switched on along with the power to the ST1 - STng network in order to get wind and depth information on the I70S from the ST1 network. In other words, the data from the ST60+ instruments has to go through the E120 Classic via the E120-ST1 cable and return to the STng network via the E120-STng cable.

I would like to show the ST60+ data on the i70s with the E120 Classic switched off. Can you review the new proposed network diagram and let me know if it will work or if it will cause loss of functionality. I know that there are multiple 12vdc power sources to the ST1 and STng networks but will this be a problem if they are coming from the same panel switch? Also, there could be a data clash with the E120 Classic receiving data from the E120-ST1 cable and the E120-STng cable. I have found that the Autopilot cannot be engaged from the E120 Classic if just the E120-ST2 cable is connected - think the ST1-STng Converter cannot handle it.

Thanks for your help.

[kevinvh]

Thanks for the phone call and advice today Chuck - really great advice.

I have modified my proposed network diagram to reflect what we discussed. Can you confirm that the diagram is correct this time. I have all the components.

As I mentioned, the E120 Classic s/w version is V5.69 and the ST1-STng Converter s/w version is V2.03.

Await your simulation on Monday to see if you can engage the autopilot from the E120 Classic when a GoTo Route or Waypoint is selected. I was not able to do it previously with just the E120-STng cable connected to the MFD - the GoTo tab appeared on the MFD but there was no 'Engage Pilot' tab under it. I had to connect the ST1 network to the MFD as well via a E120-ST1 cable to get the 'Engage Pilot' tab to appear.

Thanks - Kevin

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Kevin,

It is possible to interface an E-Series Classic MFD to an autopilot having a SeaTalk communications interface, but lacking a SeaTalkng interface via the following two methods:
- both the MFD and autopilot have been interfaced to a common unpowered SeaTalk bus. The unpowered SeaTalk bus may then be interfaced to a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to support integration with system's devices having a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 communications interface. The SeaTalk bus will be powered via the SeaTalkng backbone via the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter(s). This method of interfacing the MFD to the autopilot will not only permit the MFD to share navigational and other system data in support of the autopilot's Track mode feature, but will also support use of the MFD's Autopilot Control feature.

- the MFD has been interfaced as a spur to the SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone.
The autopilot and other devices having a SeaTalk communications interface, but lacking a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 communications interface have been interfaced to a common unpowered SeaTalk bus. The unpowered SeaTalk bus may then be interfaced to a SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to support integration with system's devices having a SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 communications interface. The SeaTalk bus will be powered via the SeaTalkng backbone via the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter(s). This method of interfacing the MFD to the autopilot permit the MFD to share navigational and other system data in support of the autopilot's Track mode feature, but not support use of the MFD's Autopilot Control feature. This will be identified to the operator by the red X overlaying the Pilot transducer icon within the Transducer Status data item of the Databar.


Accordingly, it is recommended that the MFD be disconnected from the SeaTalkng backbone and that it instead be interfaced to the SeaTalk bus. Given the number of devices devices having a SeaTalk communications interface, more than one SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter would be recommended, as it is recommended that each SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter power no more than five SeaTalk devices.

[kevinvh]

Thanks Chuck - all understood. I have modified my network diagram to accord to your recommendation and uploaded it to the thread.

Only problem that I see is that I will need to run a second STng backbone cable and spurs to connect the G-Series Command Centre Keyboard located in the Saloon, to the SeaTalk2 connection on the MFD on the flybridge. Don't thing the Keyboard will work through the ST1-STng Converter the way I have shown it.

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Kevin,

As you have suggested the MFD will not communicate with the keyboard via SeaTalk. Accordingly, the MFD will need to be interfaced to the keyboard via SeaTalkng. However, to prevent possible looping of data between SeaTalk and SeaTalkng via the MFD, it is recommended that the MFD and keyboard be interfaced to a powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng backbone which has been dedicated to interfacing these two devices to one another.

[kevinvh]

Thanks Chuck - expected as much. Was hoping not to have to instal the additional STng backbone, etc. I will power the Keyboard circuit from the power switch for the MFD. That way the keyboard will only be activated when the MFD is switched on.

Thanks for your help - it has been very informative and much appreciated.