[CA] i60 True wind not working

[hwturn]

I have an i60 and I only get 3 dashes for true wind. I have recently replaced the mast head transducer and the cable and also the tri data transducer (depth, speed and water temp).
My apparent wind is working find as is my tri data. My auto pilot also appears to be working and reads a heading and will engage. My understanding is that the true win is a calculation that requires both speed and heading, I currently appear to have both. Additionally I have a C95 and non Raymarine AIS also on the network.
My auto pilot is an ST6000. Up until very recently the whole system worked and I haven't done any work on it since then. All of a sudden it just started not reading out true wind. Is there a detail troubleshooting procedure for that issue or more details on how I can confirm I am getting good data from both the tri data and the autopilot to the wind unit? As they both read out fine on their own displays I thought they might be working. I have attached a diagram of the over all system. I could send the wind unit to get bench tested, but I would prefer to identify the problem on my end if possible as it could be either the auto pilot or the tri data. As the auto pilot is pretty old my worry would be that one as the wind unit is only a few years old and I just replaced the tri data transducer.
Thanks,

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum hwturn,

Your diagram is not reflecting how we would have typically recommended that these products would have been interfaced to one another, nor how the SeaTalkng backbone (which at this point only comprises the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter) would have been interfaced. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject. The diagram also does not identify the model of autopilot course computer installed or how the SeaTalk bus is getting power. The preferred method of having interfaced these items to one another would have been that the i50 Instruments, i60 Instrument, and MFD each have been interfaced a separate spurs to a powered and properly terminated SeaTalkng / NMEA 2000 backbone. Should the i50 and i60 instruments each have two SeaTalkng sockets, then these three instruments may have been daisy chained to one another and then to a spur socket within the SeaTalkng backbone ... the maximum total length of the SeaTalkng Spur Cable used to create the daisy chain spur cannot exceed six meters. As indicated within the referenced FAQ, it would have then been recommended that the unpowered SeaTalkng bus (would contain the ST6xxx Autopilot Control Head and unnamed autopilot course computer) then be connected to the yellow SeaTalk socket of the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter. As indicated within the referenced FAQ, only the data (yellow) and ground (shield) leads of the SeaTalk Cable will be connected to the autopilot course computer SeaTalk port. Please again note that you have not specified the model of autopilot course computer within your diagram and that all autopilot course computer are not compatible with the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter.

Should you elect not to interface your equipment within the manner specified, then it would be recommended that troubleshooting begin by creating a new 4-cell Data Panel within the MFD's Data application and that the data panel then be configured to display Heading, Speed (not SOG), AWA & AWS, TWA & TWS data items. Should the MFD be receiving any of these data items, then the communications path would be deemed to be operational between the MFD. When so configured within your MFD, which, if any of these data items is being reported as dashes? Please additionally specify the model of autopilot course computer which is installed within your system.

[mlaver]

I'm also having this problem, but the symptoms are a bit difference. I recently replaced my ST-networked ST50+ wind, depth, and speed instruments with STng-networked i50 Tridata and i60 wind. I have a e97MFD. The i50 and i60 are on one STng spur of an ST-STng converter, the e97 is on a second STng spur, and a 4000+ autopilot is on an ST "spur" (see attached diagram). I realize the i60 needs COG to calculate true wind, but even under way I just get the bars when I select true. I can sometimes remedy the problem by restarting everything (all the instruments and the e97) but not consistently. The speed and depth transducers are connected directly to the i50 Tridata, and the e97 "sees" the i50 and i60 on the network fine.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

- Mick

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Welcome to the Raymarine Forum Mick,

Please click here to view a FAQ addressing the data items required to calculate True Wind. Note that COG is not listed among the data items required to calculate True Wind.

- verify that each of the following products have been updated with the latest available Raymarine product software updates, and if not update the software within each:
----- e97 MFD
----- SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter
----- i60 Instruments
----- i50 Instruments

- Multiple sources of data are present within your system. Please verify that the MFD's Data Sources feature has been utilized to specify which data source will be used for any data item having two sources for such data (ex. depth, speed, wind, etc.)
----- verify that the MFD's Data Sources feature has been used to specify that the i50 Tridata or e97 MFD (your choice) will be serving as the system's Speed (STW) source.
----- verify that the MFD's Data Sources feature has been used to specify that the i50 Tridata or e97 MFD (your choice) will be serving as the system's depth source.

- verify that the settings within the Fishfinder application have been configured to specify the model of Fishfinder transducer which has been interfaced to the e97 MFD's Transducer socket.

- verify that the total length of SeaTalkng Spur Cable within any spur does not exceed 6m.

- verify that the SeaTalk bus is being powered exclusively by the SeaTalkng backbone. Please click here to view a FAQ addressing this subject. Specifically the SeaTalk cable which has been interfaced to the ST4000+ must be cut and then its shield and yellow leads spliced back together, leaving the cable's red lead unspliced ... the latter red leads should be insulated to prevent shorting.

After having addressed the items listed above and should the problem persist, then please attach the MFD's Select Devices list to a response to this thread.

[mlaver]

Hi Chuck
Sorry I'm a bit confused. Is this the right FAQ?
- Seatalk to the 4000+ is working fine. The e97 sees the STBY-AUTO state changes and can control the autopilot when tracking.

All the software is up-to-date. (e97: 19.03, i50: 1.06, i60: 1.06, ST-STng converter: 2.03).

I *do* have a separate power cable off its own breaker going directly to the ST4000+ because of the autopilot's additional power requirement to drive the wheel. Since this line is powering the autopilot it's presumably also providing power to the Seatalk connection. It's easy enough for me not to turn on that breaker, but I still am unsure how that would make a difference. The problem seems to be related to the i60 not getting COG info from the e97 or speed info from the i50, both over STng.

I'll go down and the the MFD's Select Devices list later today. Thanks again.

- Mick

[mlaver]

Hi Chuck
I've attached the diagnostic output from my e97, both a PDF and the XML file.
- Mick

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Mick,

Q1. I *do* have a separate power cable off its own breaker going directly to the ST4000+ because of the autopilot's additional power requirement to drive the wheel.

A1. This is correct.

Q2. Since this line is powering the autopilot it's presumably also providing power to the Seatalk connection. It's easy enough for me not to turn on that breaker, but I still am unsure how that would make a difference. The problem seems to be related to the i60 not getting COG info from the e97 or speed info from the i50, both over STng.

A2. I have not directed that the autopilot's breaker be switched off. However, I have directed that the red lead within SeaTalk cable connecting it to the SeaTalk to SeaTalk Converter not be used, as it will backfeed power into the SeaTalkng backbone and potentially result in a ground loop. Two of the most common symptoms of a ground loop are partial or intermittent data communication. Please make the change recommended within my initial response regarding this SeaTalk cable.

After addressing A2, then please additionally see the comments within my initial response addressing multiple data sources, selection of the proper fishfinder transducer, and ensuring that that total length of the i50/i60 SeaTalkng spur.

[mlaver]

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for your help (and patience). First, your troubleshooting recommendations:

- The two STng spur cable coming off the ST-STng converter are no longer than 3m.
- Only one data source for speed, the i50 Tridata.
- The e97 was using the MFD-connected fishfinder transducer for depth as well as the i50 tridata. I switched it to the i50 just in case that was the issue. It wasn't.
- I no longer think this is an issue with the e97's COG output, as when the i60's true wind display is working it will show up while the e97 is still booting. Ditto when the i60's true wind display is *not* working. It seems to be a network issue.
- When the red power connector is removed from the ST4000+ and the field and yellow remain plugged in, the i60's true wind will *not* display. The ST4000+, i50 tridata, and i60 wind are all powered up.

Here's where it gets weirder. I disconnected power to the ST4000+ and restarted everything for the next two tests. The only power going to the seatalk cable was coming from the ST-STng converter.
- When the seatalk field and yellow are connected to the ST4000+ but the red is disconnected, the i60's true wind displays fine after restart.
- When all three seatalk wires are connected (field, yellow, and red), the i60's true wind does *not* display after restart.

There does not seem to be a way to change the state of the i60's true wind display after it has restarted. If the display comes up with the "three bars" no amount of unplugging wires or restarting individual components (such as the e97 or i50) will correct it. Conversely, if the i60 comes up with the true wind displaying correctly I can plug in power to the ST4000+, put in the ST4000+'s seatalk power, restart the i50 or e97 and it will continue to display correctly. The i60's true wind condition gets set on the initial startup.

Right now I just have seatalk disconnected from the ST4000+. For the kind of sailing I'm doing now it's more important to have true wind that to be able to control the autopilot from the MFD. The autopilot still works but I can't enable track mode. This will be an issue in a few months.

I'm trying to imagine what's wrong. The seatalk cable is the same one I was using with the ST4000+ and ST50 wind, depth, and speed instruments plugged into the same ST-STng converter. I'd say it's a software issue with the old ST4000+, but I could duplicate the problem with the autopilot turned OFF!

Could it be a component? I know my ST-STng converter is fairly old even though the software is up-to-date. Has the hardware been updated?

Thanks again.

- Mick

[Chuck - Raymarine - Moderator]

Mick,

Per our phone conversation and previous post, only the yellow and shield lead of the SeaTalk cable will be used in the SeaTalk cable which is connected to the ST4000+ should be used.

Also per our phone conversation, the i60 Wind instrument will not display True Wind if the required data items (Apparent Wind, Heading, and STW) are not available to the i60 Wind Instrument. You can verify whether these items are present on the backbone by configuring one of the MFD Data application panels to display the following data items:
- Apparent Wind (both speed and direction)
- True Wind (both speed and direction)
- Speed (STW), not COG
- Heading

Should any of the above listed data items have a value of -.-, or ---, then True Wind cannot be calculated and the value of the True Wind data item specified by the MFD will be reported as dashes. Should the MFD report --- for the Heading data item, then the ST4000+ is not communicating with the SeaTalkng backbone via the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter. The latter may be the result of any of the following:
- fault within the cable connecting the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter to the ST4000+'s SeaTalk port ... test for continuity on only the cable's shield (ground & data leads)

- fault within the ST4000+'s SeaTalk communications circuitry ... ... would need to interface to another device capable of displaying heading data and having a SeaTalk communications interface. Alternatively, the ST4000+ may be interfaced via SeaTalk to the i50 Tridata and then configured to display Depth. If -.- is reported for Depth by the ST4000+, yet depth is displayed on the i50 Tridata, then there would appear to be a fault with the ST4000+'s SeaTalk communications interface. Raymarine can no longer service ST4000+ autopilots. Rather than using the autopilot's SeaTalk communications interface, it may be possible (I'll have to research) its NMEA 0183 communications interface.

- fault within the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter ... recommend sending the ST-STng Converter to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced.

[mlaver]

Hi Chuck,
I'm not sure if it was the "burn in" of new instruments, the resetting or re-crimping of connectors, or some other weirdness, but everything is working fine. I reinstalled the Seatalk cable that goes to the ST-STng converter with only the Screen (shield) and Data (yellow) cable connected, made a data page on my e97 with only Speed, Heading, True Wind, and Apparent Wind. See attached. I rebooted everything a couple of times while under way to see if I could duplicate the problem without success (or failure, depending on how you look at it.) All's well.

Thanks so much for your help.
- Mick