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[DG] [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
06-11-19, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-19 08:11 AM by Derek - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #1
[DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Good afternoon,
I have been slowly troubleshooting an issue with my autopilot. Originally it was oscillating about 12" to port and then immediately the same distance to starboard, back and forth. I rebuilt the hydraulic cylinder and it no longer does that but goes hard over upon pushing the 'auto' button on the P70.

So far in the process I have updated the autopilot components to the newest software versions successfully but still need to update the Stng converter and the RS130. I have attached a diagram of the current wiring and hoped you could take a look at it to see if I am on the right track. In reading other threads in the forum I plan to change the current configuration by installing a power bus which will provide power to the ACU, the Stng backbone and the ST60 instruments individually and turn off the ACU power out switch (currently powering everything). I also read that I should cut and isolate the red wire in the splice from the ST60's.

Other than feedback on the diagram my other questions are:
1. Should I cut the red wire in the current splice and leave the bare to bare wires and the yellow to yellow wires attached as shown?

2. In adding separate power to the ST60's what is the correct colors of wire to connect to each other and the power bus?

My current equipment is:
P70, V3.08
ACU 400, V2.23
EV1, V3.02
R130, V2.20
Stng Converter, V1.21
E120 Classic, V5.69
E80 Classic, V5.69
(3) ST60+

Thanks, you guys have been a great help so far!!

Attached File(s)
.pdf  Instrument Schematic_0001.pdf (Size: 659.68 KB / Downloads: 185)
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06-12-19, 08:21 AM
Post: #2
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Kmac
Thank you for your enquiry.

One of the issues is the power to the ST60s. They should be powered separately and the red wire in the splice disconnected and insulated. The STng then has it's own power supply which feeds the STng connected displays and the ST60s have their own supply. The Power to the ST60s is simply 12v to the red SeaTalk wire and 0v to the bare wire (or screen/ Shield).

The STng, the ACU400, the E120 and E80, the ST60 network will all require their own power supply.

if the Autopilot still continues to go hard over when AUTO selected:-

Select STANDBY, turnt he wheel to starboard - does the rudder angle display show green? If yes, good, if RED, then reverse the RED and GREEN wires of the rudder reference unit where it is connected to the ACU.

Once the rudder angle displays correctly in Standby, then Select AUTO and quickly press 3 x =10, does the drive turn to Starboard? If yes, good, if no, reverse the polarity of motor wires connected to the ACU.


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07-10-19, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 07-16-19 09:10 AM by Derek - Raymarine - Moderator.)
Post: #3
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Derek,
Thank you so much for your help to date, hopefully I am getting closer to solving the autopilot issue! I have attached a new diagram for the most recent wiring based on your input.

Since my last post I have purchased and installed a new Stlk-Stlkng converter with the most recent software. All instruments are now updated with current software. I have also had the EV1 and ACU400 bench checked by Raymarine, they checked out fine. After rewiring the instruments I performed a factory pilot reset on the P70 and performed the dockside calibration, the rudder reference indicator moved smoothly and in the proper direction (as a side note I also tried reversing the motor leads just in case they were backwards which caused the motor to oscillate rather violently so I put them in their original location and assumed the leads were correct). I then linearized the EV1 successfully with a deviation of 7 degrees. I then took the boat out to test the autopilot with the following results.

When on a steady heading in calm seas I pushed the auto button, the boat went immediately hard over to the stop to starboard, I pushed the standby button and gained control again. I also set up a waypoint in the E120 and tried to track to that waypoint with the boat going hard over to the stop to port. (note, since the autopilot has not worked since I purchased the boat and have never set up a waypoint it is possible that user error was in part responsible for the issue.)

I have a couple of questions and observations which may help you give me some additional insight into further troubleshooting.
1. The P70 and E120 both show the same heading which is within 4 or 5 degrees of the compass. The GPS position is accurate showing the boat in my slip.
2. All of the instruments appear to be supplying accurate data.
3. When diagnostics is run on the P70 all of the Seatalkng devices are shown with accurate software versions etc. The E120 is shown with what seems to be a random name but with the correct information associated with it. The ST60+ instruments are not shown.
4. The P70 shows 'track' grayed out in mode selection. When I tried to track to the waypoint the P70 showed an alarm 'No navigation data'.
5. When 'diagnostics', 'external' is run on the E120 it does not show any Seatalk or Seatalkng devices. The reply is 'no devices found'.

Q1, Where does the P70 and the E120 derive its navigation data?

Q2, Since the E120 is quite old and has been in the cockpit since installed and was originally wired to the Seatalk port I am wondering if there may be a problem with the Seatalk2 port. Is there a way to test the pins to verify data is being transfered?

As always, thank you for your help!

Attached File(s)
.pdf  Instrument Schematic 619.pdf (Size: 687.19 KB / Downloads: 190)
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07-13-19, 07:20 AM
Post: #4
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Derek,
I saw my post but with no reply. I'm not sure if I did something wrong, maybe I should have posted in a different category, or maybe there aren't any answers to my issue. If you could let me know I would really appreciate it.
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07-16-19, 10:59 AM
Post: #5
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Kmac,

Thanks for the feedback, not sure what happened to the earlier response but here it is again!

There are a couple of simple checks to carry out before leaving the dock.

With the p70 in STANDBY mode, turn the wheel to starboard and check the rudder angle display on the p70 goes the correct way - turn the wheel to Starboard, the rudder angle display should show a green bar proportionate to the amount the wheel is turned. Turn the wheel to port and the display should indicate a red bar proportionate to the amount the wheel is turned. if the rudder bar indicates the opposite direction, then the red and green wires of the rudder reference unit need to be swapped where they connect to the ACU.

The second test is to select AUTO on the p70, then select 2 x +10, the wheel should turn to starboard and the display show starboard rudder, repeat the test selecting 2 x -10 to turn the wheel to port. If the wheel turns the opposite direction, then the MOTOR wires must be reversed where they connect to the course ACU.

The issue you describe with track mode, this can be resolved by entering the current local Variation value into the calibration of the p70 as a manual variation setting, this should then enable the track mode to be accessed.

The E120 should be outputting Track data to the pilot, but the EVpilot needs variation to operate in track mode and the E120 is of an age where this data is not passed through, hence the need to use manual variation in the p70.

The schematic you attached should be fine, although personally I would have recommended disconnecting the SeaTalk2 from the E120 and connecting SeaTalk 1 from the E120 to the current ST60+ instruments, this would be a more reliable configuration.

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07-17-19, 12:31 PM
Post: #6
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Derek,
Thanks for getting back to me! You are a great help.

I will make the change to the variation in the P70 when I get back to the boat. I think it is currently set for 'auto'.

The rudder reference is correct, the p70 shows a steady turn red to starboard and then green when I turn the helm to port. It also turns the helm properly during the dockside calibration test. I have attempted to test the motor leads by the method you describe but as soon as I push 'auto' on the P70, the helm goes hardover. I have not attempted to push the +(-)10 buttons on the P70 as the helm is turning or hard over, should I try that? I did physically try interchanging the motor leads on the ACU400 and the motor was very erratic, oscillating back and forth kind of violently so I thought they were probably correct and put them back the way they were.

I wonder if you could elaborate on the setup, why do you feel it would be more reliable? Your description was very similar with the way the system was wired originally. I am not sure how you would power the ST60's but originally it was powered through the spice, red wire connected, to the yellow Stlk-Stlkng converter and the 3 daisy chained ST60's. The E120 was connected to the open port of the last ST60.

I changed the setup because of a post I read from last year,
What are your thoughts between the two setups?
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07-19-19, 11:33 AM
Post: #7
RE: [DG11] Autopilot/system cabling questions
Hi Kmac

Personally, I prefer to keep the two networks entirely separate, the E classics were based around SeaTalk and the SeaTalk 2 or STng aspect of them was developed very much in advance of NMEA2000 becoming widely used and so I would consider the SeaTalk connection to be more advanced and robust than an early development of Seatalk 2.

In networks where that appears to be unstable data issues, I would go back to first principles, get the SeaTalk working right, get STng working right, then bridge between the two with a converter, making sure the converter is powered by STng and isolated from the SeaTalk power.
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